Blog on the Lillypad
Saturday, March 06, 2004
 | My Ionic Breeze
I bought an Ionic Breeze two weeks ago because I'd heard so much good about it. Of course, once I got it home, plugged it in, and checked the 'net, I started reading how many allergists have said it is worthless. Fortunately, Sharper Image has a 60-day return policy. So I decided to give it two weeks. It seemed to help my allergies to a limited extent. Honestly, I cannot say it has had no effect. But neither can I call it a cure-all. |
Today when I pulled out the filter to wipe it clean, I did see a lot of dust on the thin filter plates and wiped it off. This prompted me to decide to give it another two weeks. If it traps that much dust, then it's that much dust I'm not breathing. One reviewer commented that she has light allergies, and she find her Ionic Breeze worth while. I have pretty strong allergies and I find it helpful to a limited extent. But for people with severe allergic reactions to dust, a HEPA filter may still be the way to go.
 | Clarifying but not rescinding
Got an e-mail earlier today from a friend who warned me that on the boards, my comment to Evangelist Tim Lee, "It's the Bob Gray, Jim Vineyard, Jack Hyles scenario all over again, preying on young people who are easily led; just on a delayed timer with you. You advocate disobedience to Scripture and encourage the worst in others." could be construed as libel. I told him that I've made it clear that I don't think Evangelist Tim Lee is the sort of person who would cheat on his wife or even tell outright lies. I think he's incompetent with Scripture, that he did misrepresent Scripture (or used it incorrectly) in the "butcher" thread, and that he appealed to the worst in his readers rather than appealingto Scripture. I tossed off the warning. |
Meanwhile, in the forum, Evangelist Tim Lee, in a painstaking way that's kind of funny, is bringing dictionary definitions to the Texas Baptist College Forum to show that the statement was libel. My friend then told me just to go clarify it on the board. I got interested in this and wrote the following:
OK, I'll clarify it
Posted by BASSENCO on Mar-6-04 1:44pm
(In reply to: This is a libelous statement posted by Marine on Mar-5-04 10:21pm)
In the thread titled "Molesters should be butchered like Hogs", and the threads that were started within two hours of it beginning, you derided a person who presented a Scriptural rationale, presented a de facto agreement with the idea of torture/vigilantism by expressing scorn for views that opposed it, said plainly that you would "mess with" somebody who harmed a family member of yours and then return to a "spiritual plane" (thus expressing contempt for the very life that we are to live in Christ), and used Scripture incorrectly by taking a verse out of context.
In short, you relied on the devices that many of us recognize as being typical of Jack Hyles, Bob Gray, and Jim Vineyard: emotional manipulation, an appeal to machismo in place of Scripture, and an utter disregard---and scorn---in your conversation for any appeal to the authority of the Scripture and its coherent presentation.
In that sense, and in that sense only, I believe that you are like them, and you are repeating the tactics they used in the early stages of their ministries.I believe that you are out of control. And I believe that great harm can result from your advocacy on dealing with crime personally instead of by the means God has ordained. You are dealing with an audience that has a lot of young men in it, and you are an evangelist. You are shaming that office, and you have displayed such gross ignorance and contempt for the Bible that I think you are unfit for that office. And I think that what you've said is dangerous to society and dangerous to any person foolish enough to believe you.
BASSENCO
Meanwhile, there have been a lot of posts in the Texas Baptist College forum, but I went in, did a word search for "libel," posted my two posts, and went out again. I got an e-mail urging me to change the jpg of Evangelist Tim Lee to something else, so I did that. I guess the Reverand Lee doesn't care to have his face associated with his words on my blog.
There is a historical link between Fundamentalists and vigilantism (all those abortion clinics). I think it would be to my benefit in any court to just present Evangelist Tim Lee's posts and my argument from Scripture that affirms that God is the ultimate judge of criminals (not individuals), then his attack of that position, and defiance of it. Evangelist Tim Lee's response---inextricably tied to his influence as an evangelist---represents a dangerous mindset. He was not able to resort to a Biblical justification for his point of view; he did encourage an attitude of dealing with crime personally and then "returning to a spiritual plane", and he defied a presentation of Scripture with ridicule. With the body of evidence that already exists regarding Fundamentalists and vigilantism, I'd gladly put my case before a group of 12 ordinary people to decide. Christians are not to take the law into their own hands, and we are to observe even capital punishment with a dignity and sobriety that testifies of our faith in God. If Evangelist Tim Lee could not see his way clear to agree with that, I have not libeled him to point it out. And I have not libeled him to say he holds a view that will cause suffering if anybody takes his words seriously.
| The Fundies are Angry!
Woke up early this morning to go find the train station in preparation for the BIG TRIP to Boston. But it's storming outside. No lightning or thunder, just rain and wind, wind, wind. How appropriate! Checked e-mail and found a warning from a trusted friend that the natives are doing the war dance over on the FFF. Apparently the fact that I documented Evangelist Tim Lee's posts to point out his lack of competence in Scripture isn't sitting too well with some people. Meanwhile, the wind is blowing, blowing, blowing. Well, you take the wind and you take the sun. The e-mail said something about an allegation of libel, but I don't think I've committed libel. |
However I was warned that the sentiments over there are quite ugly about me, so I won't bother going over. There's no need to. They all come over here anyway.
Friday, March 05, 2004
| A Little Tale of Understanding...
I may re-print this post here, but for now, if you want an eye-popping look at life in Longview Baptist Temple, click the above link. The whole thread is worth reading. It depicts a pastor who is master of manipulation when it comes to driving church people one way and another and getting them to knuckle under. I'm still trying to get a question answered, but I don't want to delay posting this link. Click over and see what you think. |
When Ignorance Rules the Pulpit
Tim Lee is not a man who would cheat on his wife or even tell outright lies to direct questions. I don't approve of his brutality of words towards others. He bills himself as an evangelist and yet resorts to name calling and railing against lost people who---for all we know---have no clue as to what the Gospel really is. Tim Lee, who goes by "Marine" on the FFF, often posts an "Idiot of the Day" post, which I believe is reprehensible in a man who holds any ecclesiastical office. Until yesterday I regarded him as a blemish on Christianity and those who name Christ, but not a serious deterrent to those who stumble or struggle toward faith.
That changed yesterday. Endorsing barbaric behavior is dangerous---especially when a person who has a role in the pulpit endorses such behavior and rebuffs what the Scripture says.
The following posts are the sort of thing that police investigators sift through after some 20-something kid commits a heinous crime.
Molesters should be butchered like Hogs
Posted by Martin Luther Hyles on Mar-4-04 3:49am
cross post from another site.....but i agree with him.
Ol' Sparky is too good for them!
I'M MADDER than La Toya Jackson in a talent contest at how these filthy, child-molesting vermin are being treated with kid gloves by our bleeding-heart criminal justice system.
Not only do pedophile priests get a free ride, courtesy of "understanding" bishops, but celebrities who violate our children are allowed to walk the streets free for years -- even after the whole world knows their dirty little secret.
Well, I say it stops right now.
We ought to butcher these scum like hogs. The electric chair is too good for them, if you ask me. Why should some self-respecting Mafia hit man who'd cut off his right arm before he'd hurt a kid have to sit in Ol' Sparky after it's been soiled by a cowardly piece-of-garbage child molester?
[More chest thumping and throat yodeling follows in original.]
Re: Molesters should be butchered like Hogs
Posted by BASSENCO on Mar-4-04 9:48am
(In reply to: Molesters should be butchered like Hogs posted by Martin Luther Hyles on Mar-4-04 3:49am)
A line of separation exists between acting like an unbeliever and acting in faith towards God. If we didn't believe in God and instead believed that man is the measure of all things, then we would have no restraint on torturing people to death for their crimes.
But one purpose of God's form of capital punishment is that it places God at the top of the hierarchy of those who have a right to judge criminals and pass sentence on them. The end goal of capital punishment is not to inflict suffering as well as death. The end goal is recognize that what the criminal did exceeds the authority of a fellow created being in passing proper final judgement. Capital punishment commits an offender into God's Hand, for God to pass the judgements of eternity onto the person: right there, right then, where man cannot call him back.
Human beings are made in the image of God (including child molesters), and there is a sacredness in being a human being because of the image that we bear. (That's why murdering a person, defiling a person by sexual assault, etc. should be capital offenses---and are capital offenses in the Scripture---because such crimes attempt to deface the image of God.)
So when a human being commits any criminal offense, it's not up to the injured party to try him or her; it's not up to a posse, it's not up to a lynch mob. It's up to God's decreed authority (government). And for capital offenses, we Christians recognize that God is the final judge in such a serious case.
By faith, we want to see the person deprived of life without reprieve because we see that God is the rightful final judge in cases where things beyond our power have been violated (the sanctity of human life, which human beings cannot recreate).
So, no, I don't think molesters should be butchered like hogs. If I didn't believe in the sacredness of human life and just wrath of God I would want such things. But I recognize that I am not a powerful enough person to inflict such suffering on anybody who bears the image of God. My job is to follow scripture in wanting a speedy death for such an offender, and by faith I recognize that God has the final say and judgement.
The idea that our society would ever descend into butchering, flaying, burning alive is revolting. And if we ever do descend into such behaviors, they would be another indication that the fear of God has departed from us, and we look to ourselves as the ultimate measure of right and wrong.
Instead of hopping up and down in excited anger at wrongdoing, Christians achieve better results by behaving with composure and making our reference points clear. We know that God is in control. We can act with knowledge, clarity, and we can rely on a purposeful reasoning when we confront such gross sins and crimes.
BASSENCO
Re: Molesters should be butchered like Hogs
Posted by twiceborn on Mar-4-04 10:31am
(In reply to: Re: Molesters should be butchered like Hogs posted by BASSENCO on Mar-4-04 9:48am)
That is all easily said, and done, UNLESS it is your baby girl that was violated....that is when this man would want to wrap his hands around their throut, and choke the life out of them....I kinda think the tennessee toothpick idea would work.
Re: Molesters should be butchered like Hogs
Posted by BASSENCO on Mar-4-04 10:46am
(In reply to: Re: Molesters should be butchered like Hogs posted by twiceborn on Mar-4-04 10:31am)
But that's what faith is---surrendering our responses to what our senses tell us (what we see and hear) to what God has told us is true (what we know of Him and His reign). Faith is *only* evident when it rules over the flesh and over rides the inclinations of the flesh. Faith and flesh are always in battle, and the stakes are always high and costly.
BASSENCO
Re: Molesters should be butchered like Hogs
Posted by Marine on Mar-4-04 11:46am
(In reply to: Re: Molesters should be butchered like Hogs posted by BASSENCO on Mar-4-04 10:46am)
You mess with my daughter or son or you mess with my grandchildren and I am going to mess with you. When I am through messing with you then we can get back on a spiritual plane.
Castration is too good for a child molester. If they are that bad then put them in the electric chair and do them and us all a big favor.
God is God and his grace is far beyond my understanding. But I am not God and I don't have that much grace. Good to see that Bass does though.
A man in Sacremento just this week was arrested for having sex with a TWO MONTH OLD BABY!!He took pictures of it! I would have no difficulty with taking him into a field and shooting him like the dirty mangy animal that he is.
Re: Molesters should be butchered like Hogs
Posted by BASSENCO on Mar-4-04 12:10pm
(In reply to: Re: Molesters should be butchered like Hogs posted by Marine on Mar-4-04 11:46am)
And that would be sin, Marine. Because your first obligation is to obey God and not your inclinations. Acting like a pagan is for pagans. Acting according to faith in God is for Christians.
BASSENCO
Re: Molesters should be butchered like Hogs
Posted by Marine on Mar-4-04 12:23pm
(In reply to: Re: Molesters should be butchered like Hogs posted by BASSENCO on Mar-4-04 12:10pm)
[from BASSENCO, posted without quotes] And that would be sin, Marine. Because your first obligation is to obey God and not yoru inclinations. Acting like a pagan is for pagans. Acting according to faith in God is for Christians.
BASSENCO [EOQ]
Marine>> God said drown them in the ocean!
Tim Lee---A sinner saved by grace!
Re: Molesters should be butchered like Hogs
Posted by BASSENCO on Mar-4-04 12:25pm
(In reply to: Re: Molesters should be butchered like Hogs posted by Marine on Mar-4-04 12:23pm)
Where did He say that?
BASSENCO
Re: Molesters should be butchered like Hogs
Posted by Marine on Mar-4-04 12:28pm
(In reply to: Re: Molesters should be butchered like Hogs posted by BASSENCO on Mar-4-04 12:25pm)
MT 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Tim Lee---A sinner saved by grace!
Re: Molesters should be butchered like Hogs
Posted by BASSENCO on Mar-4-04 12:56pm
(In reply to: Re: Molesters should be butchered like Hogs posted by Marine on Mar-4-04 12:28pm)
He is NOT telling *us* to do that. This verse proves what I am saying. Christ is talking about impending judgement from God on such sinners. Thus we promptly execute capital offenders and commit them to God who will punish justly according to the grossness of the sin that sought to defile His image (a human being).
BASSENCO
[End of Sub-thread] More than one person erroneously assumed I have never felt that same anger against really wicked and cruel people, I certainly have. Being vengeful is one of my favorite sins! But I don't advocate the sin of vengefulness. And I do recognize that yielding to the rage we feel at certain crimes is still not God's way. Fundamentalists are supposed to believe that the supremacy of the Word of God rules us even when our feelings dictate against its contraints.
But if you go read this entire thread in the Texas Baptist College forum, you see that these people don't even acknowledge the requirement to think and act in subjection to Scripture. Even Evangelist Tim Lee doesn't. He clearly says, without shame, that he would "mess with" someone who's harmed a member of his family and then return to a spiritual plane.
The other problem I have is that I've spent the last three years documenting abuse of children from pulpits in the IFB movement.
I always figured this man knew his Bible. But read the rest of the posts and see for yourself. He posts insults, attacks, rabbittrails, and at least one switcheroo (the question of self defense). But he never provided any Scriptural discussion: no counter passages to show where I'm wrong, nothing from the Bible to contradict what I pointed out about the limits on capital punishment, nothing. One verse taken out of context, which I corrected. That's it. I was surprised, but more, I was dismayed to see him continue to advocate torture against criminals. That's the sort of retribution that doesn't accomplish anything and ultimately destroys the person who takes the engages in it.
 | Bassenco: We need a Hog Killin' Revival. |
Posted by Martin Luther Hyles on Mar-4-04 2:31pm
(In reply to: Re: Molesters should be butchered like Hogs posted by BASSENCO on Mar-4-04 9:48am)
Baloney Bassenco.
Scripture provides for not only civil justice and authority, but also private revenge. God founded three institutions upon this earth: the church, the state, and the family.
Each of these institutions is charged with specific duties to God and neighbor. Consequently, each institution is empowered to regulate and defend itself against attack.
In the case of sexual sin, we find that all three institutions are attacked. Therefore all three institutions have an obligation to defend themselves and exact punishment.
In Texas the State defends itself and the victims through trial, incarceration, and the intravenous "Go to Hell Cocktail."
The Church is to defend itself through censure, suspension from the Lord's table, excommunication, and separation.
The Father or near Kinsmen is to defend the family through direct violence, either to stop a proximate threat, or to exact punishment upon the perpetrator at a later time.
In the United States, Families have no legal standing in defending themselve except against proximate threats(self defense). The fact that our nation does not value family preservation so highly does not negate the biblical directives found in Moses.
Christ's test, "He who is without Sin" is repetition of the codified OT directive forbidding a man from condemning another when that man is guilty of the same sin. Such a directive would apply to the present situation only if the accusers were guilty of a similarly heinous crime.
[End poem snipped]
I did post an answer to the above post. Click Here to Read it on the Forum
 | Re: Bassenco: We need a Hog Killin' Revival. |
Posted by Marine on Mar-4-04 2:34pm
(In reply to: Bassenco: We need a Hog Killin' Revival. posted by Martin Luther Hyles on Mar-4-04 2:31pm)
Bass is the only one who has been completely sanctified on here. The rest of us are in a real mess.
Tim Lee---A sinner saved by grace!
 | (rolls eyes) |
Posted by BASSENCO on Mar-4-04 2:55pm
(In reply to: Re: Bassenco: We need a Hog Killin' Revival. posted by Marine on Mar-4-04 2:34pm)
(No text)
[Next, a separate thread:] Here's another brief thread. I don't know why he kept starting new threads. Certainly he never introduced Scripture or started over. He ended this thread by more bitter words towards me. It was starting to get funny, but it's also really tragic to think that this man holds the influence that he does.
| I am not so sure that God has much grace for |
Posted by Marine on Mar-4-04 12:04pm
someone who hurts a child.
MT 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Tim Lee---A sinner saved by grace!
| Re: I am not so sure that God has much grace for |
Posted by BASSENCO on Mar-4-04 12:11pm
(In reply to: I am not so sure that God has much grace for posted by Marine on Mar-4-04 12:04pm)
I'm sure God has no grace for anybody who believes his way is better than God's way just because the circumstances are quite extreme.
BASSENCO
| Re: I am not so sure that God has much grace for |
Posted by Marine on Mar-4-04 12:25pm
(In reply to: Re: I am not so sure that God has much grace for posted by BASSENCO on Mar-4-04 12:11pm)
[from BASSENCO, posted without quotes] I'm sure God has no grace for anybody who believes his way is better than God's way just because the circumstances are quite extreme.
BASSENCO [EOQ}
Marine>>I am not for sure that God has grace for someone who has set her high and might self up as everyone else's judge!
Tim Lee---A sinner saved by grace!
| Re: I am not so sure that God has much grace for |
Posted by BASSENCO on Mar-4-04 1:06pm
(In reply to: Re: I am not so sure that God has much grace for posted by Marine on Mar-4-04 12:25pm)
Who did I judge? Those who believe that their ways are better than God's ways?
Do you actually think God is gracious to such attitudes of having a better way than God's ways?
BASSENCO
| Re: Do you Have Children/Bass |
Posted by Marine on Mar-4-04 1:31pm
(In reply to: Re: Do you Have Children posted by BASSENCO on Mar-4-04 1:02pm)
[from BASSENCO, posted without quotes] I am not arguing what I would **want** to do. I know what I would **want** to do. I am arguing that it's still wrong and faithless to do what I want to do. [EOQ]
Marine>> If a man was raping you and you could reach out and grab a .38 claiber pistol and blow his brains away,would you do it or would you pray for more faith to see you through it?
Tim Lee---A sinner saved by grace!
| You've changed the subject |
Posted by BASSENCO on Mar-4-04 1:38pm
(In reply to: Re: Do you Have Children/Bass posted by Marine on Mar-4-04 1:31pm)
Self defense is allowed in scripture. And of course I would defend myself. But after I've subdued him, to torture the man to death, butchering him like a hog, is not permitted. Yes I would probably want to make him suffer. But to do that is to yield to the flesh against the promptings of the Word of God.
Faith isn't easy on the flesh. It mortifies the flesh to live by faith. But we still have a God in whom we can place faith and confidence. And we don't fully know until we place our confidence in Him that He is able to sustain us. But when we fail to do that, we have turned to the flesh.
Faith always battles the flesh, and it's always costly to the flesh to live by faith. But we are comanded to live by faith. And faith is the way we Christians live.
BASSENCO
After I answered this question, Tim Lee returned to it in a separate thread as though he had never asked it. When I saw the subject line (about being raped) show up a couple times in a row in a new thread it gave me the creeps. I asked him why he was fascinated with that topic. He got angry, but I told him just to reference self defense. Then I noticed that a lot of the posts were being deleted. He deleted most of what we said back and forth. He later said this was because the topic/subject line (rape) had offended me.
However after backtracking and double-checking I saw that he had deleted other posts as well, including some namecalling that prompted me to post a line about rolling my eyes. He posted a punitive response to that, and I replied again that I rolled my eyes because my eyes work properly (ie, I can plainly see what the Scripture says). But he later deleted his posts in the "eye rolling" sequence, though they did not reference rape. He never explained why he deleted them. However, there is still plenty of name calling left in there. He certainly didn't skimp. He regarded this documentation of his words unfavorably.
Wednesday, March 03, 2004
 | A Checkered Past?
A newcomer to the Texas Baptist College forum (Longview Baptist Temple) declares that back in the 80's there was a case of the then principal of Longview Christian Academy engaging in a sexual relationship with a 16 year old girl in the school. For this, accordng to the source, the man was eventually packed up and shipped off through the back door. But Pastor Bob Gray (senior) never went to the police. This newcomer also declares that a local television station is now investigating the history of the church to see if there is a pattern of abuse, sexual misbehavior, etc. |
I seldom trust new screen names that pop up in the middle of a new scandal. But I recalled somebody in the last couple years mentioning the case of the Longview Christian Academy principal back in the 80's and making the same allegations (except the person didn't give the man's real name). So I searched around and found Coyote's Tales from the Temple #15. If you read my blog you know that I enjoy and recommend these tales.
Tale #15 tells of "Tommy South", a principal at Longview Christian Academy who used a student ("Miss Confused") sexually and was run off but never prosecuted. I do trust Coyote's recollections of that place. Let's hope that there really is a news team looking into the history of Longview Baptist Temple. The IFB movement has refused to clean up it's own house, and they are long overdue for somebody to come in and clean it up for them.
Tuesday, March 02, 2004
An Exchange Regarding the Hirner Case
| One thing to like about many IFB-KJVO preachers: They are really stupid. Today a poster by the name of Cletus (I assume he named himself after the Simpson's character) commented regarding the Hirner case. When I asked for info about allegations in the Hirner case at LBT, Baldpate (a member of the church staff at Nepotism-R-Us Baptist Church; oh wait, I mean Pinellas Park Baptist Temple. No wait, since the Dave Hyles fiasco, they've renamed it Crosspointe Baptist Church) had to speak up and vent his anger and venom at me. Great. Like we didn't have enough evidence of the contents of the hearts and minds of the leadership at that church (whatever name you call it). Against the advice and warnings of others and in the face of the witness of two books and a news documentary, they hired a serial adulterer on to church staff. And then when he behaved as a serial adulterer, they got him out through a back door. And now they say they did no wrong. |
Does it bother you LBT members?
Posted by Cletus on Mar-2-04 10:09amThat your pastor looked into the cameras and lied through his teeth on the 6:00 news last night?
Sincerely,
Cletus
Can you be more specific?
Posted by BASSENCO on Mar-2-04 10:11am
(In reply to: Does it bother you LBT members? posted by Cletus on Mar-2-04 10:09am)
I didn't see it. What did he say and how did he lie? If you've got evidence, I'll document it in my blog.
Re: Can you be more specific?
Posted by Baldpate on Mar-2-04 2:34pm
(In reply to: Can you be more specific? posted by BASSENCO on Mar-2-04 10:11am)
crawl back in your hole you troll!
Christian E. Farris
Assistant Pastor, Crosspointe Baptist Church
So are you recruiting Hirner to work for you?
Posted by BASSENCO on Mar-2-04 3:05pm
(In reply to: Re: Can you be more specific? posted by Baldpate on Mar-2-04 2:34pm)
I hear that Pinellas Park Baptist Church has an opening on staff. And all the culprit has to do to prove he's repented is write a letter of apology!
While it's clear that you and your type want gross sins covered and hidden under the rug, the necessity to document and provide evidence to the Body of Christ is clear. Granted, Baldpate, it makes you look both corrupt and stupid when matters of gross incompetence and corruption in the pulpit become public, but the truth will out eventually.
BASSENCO
Ooops! Did I say Pinellas ParK? How silly---
Posted by BASSENCO on Mar-2-04 3:17pm
(In reply to: So are you recruiting Hirner to work for you? posted by BASSENCO on Mar-2-04 3:05pm)
I forgot that rather than change your ways and amend your hearts, you just changed the name of your church.
BASSENCO
Re: BASS.... THE BUFFOON!
Posted by Baldpate on Mar-2-04 6:22pm
(In reply to: So are you recruiting Hirner to work for you? posted by BASSENCO on Mar-2-04 3:05pm)
right... that is exaclty how it went down. And you know because you were right there in the middle of it the whole time. LOL!
BASS, a couple of months ago when you posted all that stuff about IFB being a breeding ground for immorality my brother made you look like a buffoon! You had to run to your doctors and get more meds and then crawl into a hole. YOU DISAPPEARED! now your peaking your pathetic head out of that hole of yours and quite frankly, it's scarring the people of the forum. You should be ashamed of yourself!
Christian E. Farris
Assistant Pastor, Crosspointe Baptist Church
Well it's pretty clear that Christian Farris (Baldpate) resents evidence of wrong doing in the pulpit being made public. Say, do you think he's worried about something? Or guilty? But the best part about Christian Farris, once you get past the misspellings and exceptional level of venom he ejects over a request for documentation, is that as he is in the very act of demonstrating that he is unfit to hold church office by railing against a person, he also takes the trouble to sign his posts with his name and the office that he currently holds.
No doubt Christian is very, very proud to hold church office (Lately, the battle cry of some fundies has not been "Souls for Jesus!" as it once was but, rather, "Hey, thanks Dad!").
I'm not sure how long normal people will put up with him in church office. But he provides a handy bit of evidence of the thinking of IFB-KJVO culture: ignorance, wrath, defensiveness, and name calling. By the way, I think the posts he refers to from Jonathan are the series I posted in which I explained biblical church discipline to Jonathan Farris. Or was it the series when Jonathan Farris blamed me for Dave's success at Pinellas Park? It's hard to recall exactly what it was. These Farris boys write volumes to excuse themselves from their responsibilities. And no, I'm not on any meds. I don't take perscription drugs and haven't in about 15 years.
 | The Disney Machine ready to crapify the Narnia Series
One of my worst nightmares came a step closer to being truth today when I read an article that declares that Disney is going to put CS Lewis' masterpiece, The Lion, the WItch, and the Wardrobe into production. In a comment of stunning prescience of the mutilation to come on this classic, Cary Granat remarked about the story, "It says a lot about empowerment and fractured families coming together". So we see at the gate that the backers and financiers have no real idea of what The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe is actually about. |
I knew when Disney destroyed the accuracy and relevance of the Pocahontas story and then completely emasculated Victor Hugo's towering Hunchback of Notre Dame into a carnival of banal songs and stupid dialogue that there was no classic too sacred for Disney to subject to "the treatment". Mercifully, when their endeavour of Hercules fell flat, I realized that these ghastly inappropriate films don't have enough substance to last very long.
One can only hope that in the chopping, pressing, filtering, sweetening, stupification, and treacle treatment that Disney gives to Lewis' classic, that their end product will also die a quick death. Maybe after a brief period of watching the latest Disney goo slide into the ooze of their politically correct, syrupy sweet pool of flops, people who appreciate the direct clarity, innocence, and stripped down profundity of the CS Lewis classics will remain relatively unscathed.
 | A busy week for IFB scandal
I got up thirty minutes early today to re-check the FFF and track where the two current IFB scandals are. Nothing new on the "Outed" series regarding Jim Vineyard and his alleged erotic and pornographic words to a young lady (under the guide of "counseling"). On the Longview Baptist Temple story where Russell Hirner had been on staff previously as school principal, at least one poster on the Texas Baptist College forum insists that bus children (children---usually poor children----bussed in to church services on Sunday) had made complaints about Hirner in the past but were ignored. The leadership of Longview Baptist Temple has been commended by the police for cooperating fully in the investigation of Hirner for child molestation, yet the church leadership refuses to comment on why Hirner had been discharged (or quit) a year ago. |
According to posts on the LBT forum, Bob Gray (the pastor) has addressed the issue in a fiery sermon in which he blamed everybody else for Hirner's moral collapse but the church leadership.
 If you wonder what kind of church/college/Christian school the Grays are running (for it's Bob Sr. and Bob Jr, another "dynasty style" church), you can check the series of posts called "Tales from the Temple" by James Spurgeon, aka Coyote. I have links to several of my favorites from his pen: |
Monday, March 01, 2004
 | THIS JUST IN: Another IFB staff member jailed for molesting children
From the Longview News-Journal, February 29, 2004: Local: Former principal accused of molesting 4 students By JOHN LYNCH |
HENDERSON — A former Christian school principal from Longview was behind bars Saturday night, accused of molesting four students at his Rusk County home.
The charges against 42-year-old Russell Hirner came after an overnight investigation by the Rusk County Sheriff's Office.
Sheriff James Stroud said deputies have identified seven victims who say Hirner forced them to touch him at his home near Kilgore.
"He was enticing children to touch him in some manner for sexual pleasure," he said.
Hirner, a former principal of Longview Baptist Temple's Longview Baptist Academy, was being held without bond in the Rusk County Jail on four counts of sexual performance of a child, Stroud said. He said investigators could file more charges as soon as Monday.
Deputies were working with the Rusk County Children's Advocacy Center to question the children, which could contribute to a lengthy inquiry, the sheriff said.
"It's a slow process, but the best process for the victim," Stroud said.
The investigation began after the church brought the first victim to Longview police late Friday, with deputies working through the night to identify more young girls who have molested by Hirner, Stroud said.
One of the victims is now 21, but the girls were in their pre-teens and teens when Hirner molested them, the sheriff said, and investigators believe Hirner has been abusing girls for at least 10 years. Stroud said Hirner took advantage of his personal relationship with the girls and their families.
LINK
Sunday, February 29, 2004
 | More Follow-up by FundamentalDan on the "Outed!" Series
Fundamental Dan is a former member of the Jim Vineyard's church (Windsor Hills Baptist Church). If you've been following the Outed series, you know that Jim Vineyard has behaved with lascivious language towards a young woman and reviled a pastor who rebuked Vineyard for this behavior. Most people on the FFF have been shocked, disgusted, and even alarmed at the detailed pornographic content of what Vineyard (unbidden) said to this young woman and the coarse language he used to revile the man who defended her innocence. FundamentalDan wrote the following verse commentary to shed some light on the situation: |
I Peter 5:1-3, "The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock."
It is interesting to me that the Holy Spirit thought it necessary through the Apostle Paul to warn the early church pastors against using their position of spiritual leadership as a way to gain power. Instead, he spoke of the power that was exercised by simply living an exemplary life in front of the members. He even gives a stern warning against giving airs of lordship over the people of God.
It is equally as interesting that Christ, when walking in the shadow of His coming crucifixion and with a heart grieving over the soon betrayal of Judas, paused to gird himself in a towel and stoop to wash the feet of his disciples. It was His admonition that should be a reminder and warning to all of us about lording over others, "It shall not be so among you." We are not to be seeking honor and fame like the Pharisees did, but rather to serve those who are even in less of a position than we are.
When I was growing up at Windsor Hills, one of the constant things we were reminded of was how the pastor was on a different spiritual plane than we were. For an entire year of Bible college, I documented in my notes that not a single message by a staff member was preached that did not reference how spiritual of a man the pastor was. Yet, we were also frequently warned that the pastor could get away with language in the pulpit that we should not say, or that he could do different things that we should not do because we were not as spiritual as he was. He always told us how much he was giving in the offering, and we were constantly reminded that he got up at least at 5 am every day to read his Bible.
The word "great" was often used in conjunction with his name. He also regaled us with stories about how he did different remarkable things spiritually, always with the same disclaimer that he was "just an ole poor boy from the panhandle of Texas." We were told of everywhere he travelled, how often he preached, how much he gave, and how spiritual he was. Yet we were also taught things like that you should not call the pastor at home. You will not find his number in any phone book. The procedure was to call your staff member (all of their names ARE listed) and, if it was important enough, they would call the pastor.
Someone I know once made the mistake of asking an assistant pastor to perform their marriage ceremony. They were reprimanded because it was not right to ask the assistant instead of the pastor to perform the ceremony. We were also told of how we should remember his birthday and anniversary every year. For about three weeks leading up to both of these sacred events, the head deacon would come up and take up an offering to buy them a Christmas present. The pastor and his wife would wait in his office for about ten minutes during the start of the service as if it were a big secret what was going on. It is also interesting to note that these were the only services all year that did not start five to ten minutes early. We were told of how selfless he was and how he was constantly doing things for others. We were told of how he was always putting others first. We were also told that the parking spaces with the names painted on them were for the pastor and the staff members. The college students were told to park in the gravel parking lot, and on big days to park inside the gated bus area. But the pastor and his wife always parked in the same two spots. At every time there was a banquet or a function where we all were eating in the cafeteria, there was always a special table put up in the front, turned sideways from the rest of the tables. In the middle of that table would be the pastor's seat, and around him would be the staff members.
I could go on but I will not. Example is not just something that has to do with telling everyone how much you read the Bible or how many churches you preach at. It is about putting others first by preferring them above yourself. It is about taking the parking spot in the farthest lot and walking a bit further so that a visitor or some college student's wife carrying two infants, three diaper bags, and trying to coax a toddler to follow do not have to. It is about making yourself accessible to those who need to get a hold of you. It is about doing the things that no one will ever know about here on earth to help someone along. It is about girding yourself in a towel and stooping to wash the feet of your disciples. He that is the greatest among us shall be the servant of all, not just say it at the end of a letter.
