Blog on the Lillypad
Saturday, February 21, 2004
 | Outed! (Part 3)
Here are some references to catch you up on this issue: |
In the latest development of the Jim Vineyard scandal/saga, a brand new poster has appeared in the Oklahoma Baptist College forum of the FFF to make public the identity of the pastor who wrote a letter to Jim Vineyard rebuking him for describing oral sex in graphic detail to a young lady and advising her to masturbate (all this in the guise of "counseling" her, though she had not asked him to counsel her). (For a more detailed synopsis, click here.) While this attempt to unmask the man who rebuked Vineyard is clearly more OBC intimidation, it seems pretty lame to me. Indeed, I cannot understand why this pastor chose anonymity in the first place.
As I have remarked before, as long as men who have taken the office of being shepherds of the flock choose to be timid, we will have bullies doing pretty much as they please. But surely he knew that Vineyard and his followers have known his identity ever since Vineyard received the letter of rebuke from him (a very well written letter, by the way). So why hide his identity from the people who would support him and respect him for doing the Biblical thing in confronting Vineyard?
These IFB preachers, even those who fear the Lord, would really benefit from sitting down and learning to think things through. A good course in the Art of War would help them see that most of the same principles are inherent in the Scripture, and for the exact same reason: wisdom and foresight win every battle, not courage alone, nor caution alone. If your first goal is to protect yourself, you will never gain anything at all---not even the protection of yourself! ("For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.")
Anyway, in a strange coincidence, the posters named Dissenting View and Supporter (who loudly proclaimed Vineyard to be "God's anointed" and thus beyond rebuke) disappeared on the exact same day that Vineyard and part of his entourage left for a trip to Israel.
Meanwhile, the posts on Criminal behavior/Power Rapist got the attention of a few people, including a mother who wants her son to get out of that place. A few brand new people appeared on the board to ask a some questions and then disappear.
Some people argue that it's nearly hopeless to fight abuses of the pulpit simply by raising a stink, but I think it's very profitable. For one thing, nothing is gained without systematic documentation, and while the FFF is hardly systematic, it provides a wealth of references and contacts for those of us who want to create systematic documentation of abuses in IFB pulpits. Second, if we let time play a role in the effort to demand purity in the pulpits of the IFB, then the increasing wealth of charges of abuse creates a body of evidence. Third, by keeping these matters public, we see the evidence of incorrect teaching and bad doctrine in those who still blindly follow their IFB pastors under the incorrect idea that a pastor has some type of special anointing that makes him above reproach and not accountable to own people.
The arrogance and lust have to be exposed. And the ignorance and error have to be made plain and then addressed from Scripture. People suffer in these corrupt churches, and God's people are estranged from Him by the teaching of error. For the glory of God and the proper exaltation of His name, these abuses have to be addressed.
Wednesday, February 18, 2004
 | A Canadian Tries to figure out Baptists
Poor BD, over on Benediction Blog, is trying to figure out the different kinds of Baptists. I sent him the following comment to help him out. |
I track Independent Fundamental Baptists, which is about as nutty as Baptists get. (Wait, forget I said that. It's not true. I'm sure there are nuttier Baptist churches out there.)
As far as I know, there are,
Free-will Baptists
Southern Baptists
Northern Baptists
American Baptists
Independent Baptists (Fundamentalist, also called IFB))
Primitive Baptists
Missionary Baptists
Greater Association of Regular Baptist Churches Baptist (GARBC)
Many of the Fundamentalists (IFB) would not consider ANY Southern Baptist to really be Fundamentalist, as simply being in the SBC implies a certain concession to compromise regarding the authority of the Scripture.
What I have found is that the word "Baptist" means simply that---people who believe that baptism by immersion plays a really significant role in the Christian life (regardless of the fact that the Apostle Paul himself declared he'd never baptize anybody again, as the whole issue was becoming a distraction from the Gospel).
Some people who tote around the name Baptist believe that baptism by immersion is actually essential for salvation. Others make it a requirement for church membership. They may not see itas a requirement for salvation, but they think it's crucial for an obedient life.
The further south you go, in my experience, the less meaningful the term "Baptist" is. When I lived on the border of South Carolina and Georgia, there where churches with the name "Baptist" on the marquee who handled snakes, talked to spirits, and spoke in tongues. To a lot of people, "Baptist" is another way of saying, "We are the people who got it right, and the rest of you didn't." There are also "Baptist Briders," who acknowledge that non-Baptists might be among the redeemed, but only Baptists make up the Bride of Christ.
Granted, the Southern Baptists seem the most conservative. The Independent Baptists SAY they are the most conservative, but the IFB church leadership is so disobedient to (or else so outright ignorant of) what they profess to believe that I don't think that counts.
Anyway, as a person who is Fundamentalist by belief (ie, that the Bible is the sole authority for faith and practice, and is the inerrant Word of God) but not Baptist any more (Presbyterian! Hooray!), I don't think it's any more possible to assign "Baptist" a single, comprehensive definition than it is to assign "Christian" a single, comprehensive definition. The word means too many things to many people.
Re-print of part of a Thread in the Oklahoma Bible College Forum of the FFF
If you've been following the series on the alleged comments made by Jim Vineyard, Pastor of Windsor Hills Baptist Church and founder of Oklahoma Bible College, to a young girl describing oral sex to her and advising her to masturbate as part of her means to satisfy her husband sexually, then here is another part of this troubling story:
 | Re: and then JAV woke up....
Posted by Winterpen on Feb-18-04 4:05am (In reply to: and then JAV woke up.... posted by IMRIGHTUKNOWIT on Feb-18-04 12:12am) |
I'm reposting this as I think it may have been lost in the chatter.
The actions ascribed to JAV are seriously, if not criminally, aggressive.
If the young lady was a minor when he alledgedly talked to her in this fashion, then he should have been reported to the authorities.
Secondly, it sounds as if this may not have been the only incident. If so, then JAV is serial in his actions.
Thirdly, and the most alarming, it appears that he does not bother grooming the women or girls to lead up to these conversations. That suggests an aggressiveness that is out of control and makes me wonder what else he does or is capable of.
The behavior also shows a clear disregard of women or young girls as human beings, a sign of a sociopath.
Finally, the actions discussed in this forum are the marks of sick and criminal behavior. If he was having these conversations with staff or even people outside of his employment, he is guilty of sexual harassment. There are clear federal laws forbiding these types of discussions. While I'm not sure how the laws relate to clergy, I think he is making himself liable for a sexual harassment suit.
No one should speak in this manner to a young girl and I would even include a male member of the family. It is just not wise.
 | The model of the 'Power Rapist'
Posted by Graces BLOG on Feb-18-04 9:53am (In reply to: Re: and then JAV woke up.... posted by Winterpen on Feb-18-04 4:05am) |
According to a study done on rape histories, rapists can be categorized as chiefly motivated by anger, power, or sadism. The Power Rapist usually isn't obsessed with harming his victim, but rather possessing her---expressing both power and claiming some type of relationship with his victim through what he does.
The characteristics of the Power rapist are obsessional thoughts of an incredibly satisfactory sexual encounter of dominance, and "masturbatory fantasies about sexual conquest". But the Power Rapist never finds his fantasy in real life; it's too exaggerated, too improbable. And so his behaviors become repetitive. He keeps repeating his assaults on new victims as he searches for that perfect encounter that makes him feel adequate and powerful.
Denial of what he's done is very strong in the Power rapist. He usually insists that his assault on a woman was consensual, or that he had a right to do it, or that she needed it. He has fantasies that his assault created a bond between him and his victim, that she's grateful, or that she departs from him wiser and more prepared to engage in mature sexual relationships.
The power fantasies and forced encounters of the Power Rapist often accompany an outwardly normal life of consensual sex with a spouse or life partner. The Power Rapist creates an image of himself that he must maintain, so it is not unusual for a Power rapist to be a married man with children.=============
Men Who Rape: The Psychology of the Offender. A. Nicholas Groth. Plenum press, New York. 1981.
=============
The Georgia Network on Sexual Assault ascribes the following characteristics to the "Power [assertive style] Rapist":He has a macho image and the most important thing to him is that he be seen as such.================
He is very self-centered and does not like to be under the control of others.
He drinks a "masculine drink" and hangs out at clubs, bars, and locations where he finds his victim. [That could include a church--ed]
He takes pride in his appearance.
There is a history of conflict with women because of his selfish behavior.
According to Virginia Law Enforcement training, the Power-Assertive rapist uses only as much force as is necessary to get what he wants, and often he can gain what he wants merely by intimidation. Harming his victim is not his goal because his fantasy is that he pleases women. However, he has no real concern for his victims and discards them without concern for what he has done to them. He's as remorseless as any rapist, but his vanity causes him to live out a more elaborate fantasy.This type of rapist sees himself as a macho man.============
His language is a key part of his assault. He "talks dirty" to his victim.
He takes pride in a physical image of being macho.
He is usually married because being married and the head of his home is a part of his required macho image. His wife either leave him or is subjugated by him. If a wife successfully leaves him, his ego requires him to marry again.
According to the Mid-Valley Women's Crisis Center (Oregon), Sexual Offenders often have the following characteristics:
Above The Rules
He believes he is better than other people. He views himself as having unique gifts or abilities or experiences that enable him to understand what he does (or justify what he does).
Making Fools Of Others
He manipulates the people aroudn him in order to maintain control, and he uses tactics to keep those in his circle humiliated or subjugated.
Fragmentation
He keeps his assaultive behavior separate from the rest of his life, compartmentalized. He does not view the wrong that he does as contradicting the values he believes that he lives by.
Minimizing
He insists that the harm that he's done is not the big issue that others claim it to be.
Anger
He is no angrier than anybody else, but he uses anger to intimidate and control peopel who would challenge him or make legal complaints against him. He appears to be a tremendously angry person, btu this is a tool to maintain control.
Power Plays
He uses power any way that he can get it: manipulating others to ostracize those who oppose him or cry rape, using any office that he holds to gain leverage over others, name dropping or working himself into the good graces of people more powerful than he in order to appear powerful.
Playing Victim
Just as he uses anger as a tool, he also claims that he is being persecuted. He claims that the cry of rape is really part of an evil conspiracy or a means to bring him down from jealousy or hatred from others.
Drama And Excitement
Instead of developing close relationships, he deliberately chooses not to share in emotional intimacy with others. Instead, he stirs up people and plays them off against each other. He likes to set up high energy situations that result in uproar.
Closed Channel
"He is secretive, close-minded, and self-righteous. He believes he is right in all situations."
Ownership
"The sexual offender typically is very possessive. Moreover, he believes that anything he wants should be his, and anything that is his he can do with as he pleases. That attitude applies to people as well as to possessions. It justifies his controlling behavior, physically abusive behavior, and taking others' possessions."
Self-Glorification
"The sexual offender usually thinks of himself as strong, superior, independent, self-sufficient, and very masculine. His idea of the ideal man often is the cowboy or the adventurer type. Any action or perceived attitude of another person that does not conform to his glorified self-image is seen as a putdown."
Tuesday, February 17, 2004
 | Be specific; be precise |
Specific - If you e-mail me, and you get no reply, my spam blocker probably eliminated your e-mail for having a subject line that is too general. Please, if you send e-mail, make the subject line specific, as in "I read your blog" or "I'm from the FFF" or "When does your book club meet?" If you just say "Hi," "Hiya," "Hey there," or "howdy," my spam filter will divert the e-mail to the SPAM bin.
Precise - Please let me know if you have a question. But remember, if we're dealing with sensitive issues, I have to answer with discretion. I don't give replies to strangers who demand confidentiality. I don't want to speculate. I can provide some references to threads on the FFF; and this blog makes "Preying From the Pulpit," (a television documentary about Jack Hyles and FBCH), available for audio download. You can also download and listen to the former Paula Hyles (Dave's first wife) give a telephone interview.
So vague questions and vague rumors that people bring to me via e-mail are things I must sidestep. I can answer precise questions (even with "I don't know" if that's the answer). I want to help people who want some doctrinal guidance or information on this mess in Fundamentalism, but I cannot help people who come at me telling me how to do what I do or suggesting rumors of what might have been. Some genuine documentation is available at this blog, and I want people to make use of it. We only speculate and wonder when we don't know the facts. But the goal is to know the facts. And that takes time to download and listen to, but it's time well spent.
Monday, February 16, 2004
| Outed! (Part 2)
The latest development in the Jim Vineyard scandal (see below) is that the pastor who initially confronted Vineyard (via snail mail) has posted a scanned copy of Vineyard's letter of reply in the FFF gallery. If you're new to the story, Vineyard allegedly described oral sex to a single young lady and advised masturbation as a part of her intimate life with her husband. When this pastor (who still chooses to remain anonymous) reproached him for this, Vineyard wrote back a scathing letter. |
Now that the matter has become public in the Oklahoma Baptist College forum of the FFF, supporters of Vineyard have come online to declare that Vineyard is always right, he must have have a good reason (to advise masturbation?), and they even threw in some warnings against touching the Lord's annointed (a bogus claim but not lacking in arrogance). However, since the scanned letter has been posted in the gallery, the vitriolic defenders (one or more of whom is rumored to be Vineyard himself) have not had much to say.
Sunday, February 15, 2004
 | Get Credit for Your Own Work, kids!
Over a year ago, I received an e-mail from a woman who asked me to send her a bio of myself as quickly as possible, as her child had to do a report on me, and it was due tomorrow. I can't remember exactly how I replied. As far as I recall, I told her to have her child send me a list of questions to answer, and I would answer them. A couple months after that, I received several different e-mails from some children, obviously in the same class at school. They all had to do reports on me and wanted me to send them a paragraph about myself. I wrote to each of them and told them to send me a list of questions and I would answer their questions right away so that they could write their reports. None of them replied, except for one, who asked me again just to send a paragraph, and I replied again by saying I would answer questions but would not write the report for them. |
To remedy the problem created by children (and every now and than an over anxious parent) writing to me at the very last minute before an assignment was due, I created the "Nuttin but the FAQ", which is designed to give out some bio information but in such a way that the child still has to write it into report form. I taught English for five years. I am strongly motivated to get kids to do their own work and not copy it from sources (which is plagiarism).
A couple weeks ago, I got an e-mail from a young lady asking me to send her Robert Lipsyte's e-mail address because she has to write a report on him for school. Robert Lipsyte, if you don't know, wrote a terrific YA book called The Contender. It's a classic for teen reading. I read it about two dozen times as I went from my teens to my late twenties. And the nicest compliment I ever got about VALKYRIES was when Dr. Bill Yost told me he could see the influence on The Contender in my writing (though I don't think Mr. Lipsyte has anything to worry about).
I wrote her back to tell her that I'm honored that she would think I write to Robert Lipsyte, but I have no idea what his e-mail address is. So today I got another e-mail from her, begging me for any contact info on him that I have, as the report is due by the 25th, and she'll get a detention if she doesn't have anything.
How, I wonder, have we raised children who expect people to do their homework for them, and in time for their deadlines? Anyway, I wrote back to the young lady and gave her a brief instructional on how to find the information from people who can supply it for her (teachers, librarians, etc.) and how to do web searches. And I told her she needs to do her homework with diligence. Regrettably, I have no idea how to contact Robert Lipsyte! Yes, all the stories you've heard about me and Robert Lipsyte being pals are merely rumors.
 | Interrupted Sunday
I was enjoying my coffee and surfing around the net early this morning when I saw that we're under YET ANOTHER winter storm warning. Four to six inches tonight! I have two days left at Wyeth, and I am passing about 50 documents on to another tech writer. I realized that if the storm is bad enough, I may not even get back to Wyeth before my time there is up. (Last big storm, I was stuck at home for three days.) So I dashed to the shower, then dressed, dried my hair, threw my back brace, purse, and a 1 quart carton of soy milk into the car, and sped down to the plant an hour away. |
I got there at 9:45 and worked until 2:45 without stopping. So I got home at 3:45, and that was my Sunday. Normally I don;t work on the Lord's Day, but this is a matter of mercy and necessity. I couldn't just dump 50 documents on a person without providing instructions and directions on how to direct each one through the branched flows of the approval process. And even after five hours of working hard (I never even opened the soy milk!) I can't say that everything at work is in tiptop shape, but at least it's organized and there's a long list of where all my different documents are in the writing, editing, and approval process. I would have stayed longer to accomplish more, but the rain was pouring down, and the temperature was dropping. I knew it would turn to sleet at any time, so I left. Just as I walked in the door at home, the sleet started for a few minutes. It's in a pause right now. The forecasters are warning of "wintry" conditions on Tuesday and Wednesday, so I wonder if I will be back at Wyeth or if I will miss my own going away party.
 | Carrying the Cross
Over on the FFF, there's been a debate about a letter from a pastor sent to Jim Vineyard (pastor of Windsor Hills Baptist Church and founder of Oklahoma Bible College) regarding Vineyard's alleged detailed instructions to a young, single woman on how to have oral sex and masturbate (to be able to please her husband; though at present she is reportedly single). Portions of the alleged letter to Vineyard and Vineyard's alleged scathing but juvenile response have been posted. This morning, a new post has appeared, claiming to be from the offended pastor. It outlines the situation from his point of view. |
Regrettably, the man will not sign his name. He wishes to remain anonymous. Jerry Watson, on the other hand, has been clear about his wife receiving similar advice from Vineyard (while Watson was present), and he does sign his name. I wish these pastors, who speak so clearly about Christian courage to others, would exercise some of it themselves. When I felt called upon by the Lord to do something about the Dave Hyles situation, I didn't post what I was doing (contacting police in Dave's area and sending them documented information about his history) in order to protect myself from IFB Hyles followers, who can be exceptionally vicious. I definitely did not want a fight if I could possibly be obedient to God in alerting authorities of what I believed to be a real danger in their communities and yet do so without making enemies needlessly.
But two years later, when it became necessary to say what I had done in order to clarify the matter when others were making confusing statements, I did. And I took the crap that came with going public. The ill-taught Farrises and their ill-taught followers believe (or claim to believe) that I had a duty to go to their incompetent, idolatrous, father about Dave Hyles before I went to the police (in spite of the fact that Farris actually wore that loathesome "hundred percenter" button that told people up front he would not listen; that others had gone to him, and two books and a documentary had been produced about Dave's sins). I just took the crap because of the essential requirement to document what God really approves and what He really commands about purity and integrity in church office vs. what corrupt and unbelieving Fundamentalism teaches that He expects. Once again, a woman shows up the men in Fundamentalism. I am not very brave, and I found the experience of taking their crap upsetting. But I never doubted it was necessary. Until repentance and obedience come to Fundamentalist pulpits, the abuses will continue.
I have no idea why these people, injured and attacked and seeing their loved ones injured and attacked, stay anonymous. First, by staying silent they assure they will suffer further. Second, we're not called to keep our lives as safe, secure, and comfortable as possible. Certainly, we are called to be wise and not rash, so God's people must act with deliberation and evidence. But at the same time elders must confront sin openly and not behave as though they are sinning when they make known the gross excesses that are committed in churches by fallen preachers. Until this pastor makes his name known, the controversy stirred up by Vineyard's followers over the allegations will continue. Vineyard, if these latest claims about him are true, gets away with being outrageous and ungodly simply because the men who claim to follow Christ are timid. He can bank on their lack of genuine commitment to Christ. They are unwilling to suffer for the purity of the Gospel, and so he can rule over them. Just like any bully.
Can you trust Christ? Yes, you can trust Him to save you and guide you. Can you trust Him to keep your life free from suffering, from malacious attacks by others? No, because He has called every one of His followers to take up the cross of shame and rebuke in this world's eyes and follow Him. It takes believers by surprise to realize that we may have to carry the shame of the Cross of Christ right through the heart of Fundamentalism. But the person who carries a cross is not given the right to say where he or she will carry it. Yet where ever we carry that Cross that brings shame and derision in this world, we are following in the steps of our Master.
