Blog on the Lillypad

Friday, October 03, 2003

No Evidence of Change
The following paragraphs are a discussion pulled from several threads on the Fundamentalist Fourms (in the Hyles-Anderson Forum) regarding Dave Hyles and the fact that after two books had been written about his wild sins and a news documentary made, he still found membership and a staff position at Pinellas Park Baptist Temple (PPBT) in Florida. Several people on the Fighting Fundamentalist forum have declared that they tried to warn the church leadership at Pinellas Park Baptist Temple (PPBT) but were given the brushoff or told that they were "disloyal". What follows is part of a controversy that began when one member of the church leadership at PPBT glibly assured us that this would never happen again. If you recognize the picture I use to represent him (The Good Doctor), you'll recall that just a few weeks ago he was drawing a complete blank on church discipline, and I had to explain it to him. Some of what he says about me in the following paragraphs I take exception to, but I include his complete comments to give the reader an idea of the mindset and point of view of the person.

Jonathan Farris expects us to make the same mistake with him that his church leadership made with Dave Hyles. Dave Hyles, after years of vile sin, showed up at Pinellas Park Baptist Temple, announced that he had repented of his former ways, and was accepted into membership. He was then given a staff position at the church. (His former church secretary was recently busted at an orgy and booked for running a house of ill fame.) The church leadership at PPBT never checked into Dave's account beyond what Dave himself and friends to him and his father told them; they never looked into the people he had harmed, did not exercise any discipling to assure on an ongoing basis that he was making proper restitution or exercising proper care of his first children. They ignored warnings from others about Dave, using the logic that such warnings came from people disloyal or jealous of Jack Hyles (a fundamentalist preacher of great reknown back then, and David's father). They never examined David's life outside the church or for a prolonged period of time or through Bible study together for any true evidence that he had repented.

Now that Dave has been outed in a big way by a person (or persons) who go by the screen name of "madisonmadness," Jonathan Farris expects us to accept his assurances that his church will not make this gross mistake again. Yet Jonathan Farris has not produced any concrete evidence of a better way of handling such situations. He expects us just to take his word for it. Considering the enormous amount of harm that has been done, and the gross incompetence the church leadership showed in handling Dave Hyles according to biblical mandates for discipline and restoration, it is impossible, unwise, and unbiblical to merely take somebody's word for it after such gross error and harm.

And you will see Jonathan Farris, a man in the ministry, freak out against me, berate and revile me, accuse me, and---ultimately---provide a de facto denial of his responsibility in giving Dave Hyles shelter, a cover, and power for years. Apart from shortening the very first post in the series for brevity, I have not edited what follows. I have not included side comments from others beyond one or two for clarity's sake. If you want to read the whole series of debates, you will have to go to the Fighting Fundamentalist Forums. Select the Hyles-Anderson Forum. You may think that my first words to Farris are too brusque, and you are welcome to that opinion. But bear in mind that I have also suffered from the gross incompetence and the willful refusal to look at abundant evidence that the leadership of that church is guilty of. His assurances to me were not enough, which I directly declare. But, you can make up your own mind. Remember, in the passages that follow, I am "BASSENCO".

Subject: Madisonmadness

Posted by The Good Doctor on Oct-1-03 9:30pm

Dear Madison Family,
[First part referring to ex-church member deleted for brevity] To further clear some issues..This was all news to the Farris family and the PPBT family as well. We had no clue as to the kind of man Dave Hyles WAS and IS. Those who attempted to warn us years ago were considered nay-sayers and slanderers..we realize our error and regret the decision to not at least look at the evidence. This will NEVER happen again. I say thank you to everyone for any co-operation concerning this matter and to the Madisons and others.I say God speed !

Jonathan Farris
"Bring it On" - George W. Bush

Subject: Why should anybody believe you now?

Posted by BASSENCO on Oct-2-03 6:53am
(In reply to: madisonmadness posted by The Good Doctor on Oct-1-03 9:30pm)

>>we realize our error
Error? You released a pervert on an unsuspecting church congregation and call it an error? An error is when you type "teh" instead of "the". The sins of willful ignorance and prideful self sufficiency in the church leadership are what led to Dave Hyles getting entrenched in a church that dares to boast that it teaches, preaches, and lives by the Word of God.

>>and regret the decision to not at least look at the evidence.
Regret is not enough. The destruction of lives that you allowed and enabled among your own flock calls for grief, remorse, and a public acknowledgement of a change in behavior. It also calls for a public, documented procedure on how you will proceed in a biblical manner on accepting new members.

>>This will NEVER happen again.
If you do not recognize the grossness, horror, and wickedness of what you have done, it will certainly happen again, and it could be happening now. You have given no evidence whatsoever of genuine change or genuine, godly sorrow over what you brought upon your own flock that God gave you. They are God's flock before they were your flock, and you have allowed a terrible abuse on that which He purchased by the Blood of Christ.

In fact, these glib assurances have the same ring of glibness and self sufficiency that you used when you dismissed the serious and valid warnings of others regarding Dave Hyles. You're singing the same song---"it's all okay; we're in charge and we know what's best."

It looks to me like you haven't changed at all. A few scant weeks ago you were protesting to me that you had done the best you could and were blameless. And while you sure don't have to answer to me, you'd better believe that if God has found this to be the right time to bring down the pride of these monstrous pastors and preachers who have shorn His sheep and slaughtered them for their own profit and pleasure, you won't get away by glib assurances founded on self sufficiency.

You and your father proclaimed yourselves to be men learned in the Scripture, and you brought abuse onto people in God's name. When ever He visits these sins and begins to destroy the perversion and corruption in the IFB movement, He won't be satisfied with protests of error and regret. The Lord looks for a repentant and contrite heart. Those lives have value, and you subjected them to predation, sorrow, and destruction. You have given no evidence whatsoever of having genuinely changed your ways. Produce an assessment of the wrong you have done and a biblical process of protecting your flock, and then you'll be a lot more believable in your profession that this will never happen again.

BASSENCO

Subject: Attention All Posters

Posted by madisonmadness on Oct-2-03 7:24am

Let me make this very clear! Unless you have dealt with David Hyles in some direct form or fashion, please do not assume how you would have handled any situation. And please stop making allegations against GodÂs men. Most of the posters on this forum have never dealt with him directly and have no idea what they are talking about. All they know is what they have heard and they parrot it with out thought or discretion. Let us not be side tracked by the mission at hand. We are not here to cast judgment on the pastors who fell privy to DHÂs shenanigans, rather to stop DH himself.
BASSENCO, I do not know who you are, but unless you are a pastor of a church or you have dealt with this guy (DH) directly, you had better be careful what you say and what you assume that you would have done regarding this issue.
Now, please read and study the post that you received from BROWSING. He is right on. We have not asked anyone to join us in this investigation, rather to let us do the work and inform you as we see fit. GUARD YOURSELVES IMMENSELY and fight the good fight.

Good Day

Subject: Re: Attention All Posters/madisonmadness

Posted by BASSENCO on Oct-2-03 7:57am
(In reply to: Attention All Posters posted by madisonmadness on Oct-2-03 7:24am)

Madisonmadness, I have dealt with Dave Hyles. I have met him, and I have listened to the laments of those he harmed. I have seen people destroyed by the wicked pride in this movement because there are people in its leadership who have embraced unbiblical teachings. I have been called a dyke, a lesbian, been misrepresented by a false web page, and have had my e-mail bombed for opposing Dave Hyles. And I'm not changing. When I see the sheep safe and cared for, I will know the shepherds are doing their job.

My real name is Jeri Massi, and I am the person who sent the packet of information (the tape, the coronor's report, and the copy of FUNDAMENTAL SEDUCTION chapters) to the Pinellas Park police department two and a half years ago and had lengthy discussions with them on the phone because I realized the IFB leadership would never do the Biblically obedient thing and protect their own people from Dave Hyles. And based on what the Bible teaches about unrepentant sin, I KNEW that he was still hurting innocent people who assumed they were safe in that church. So I put it into the hands of the police because the pastorate had failed to do what God has commanded them to do. And when Dave, just a few weeks later, moved to Orange Park, I sent the same information to the Orange Park sheriff's department and also spoke with them.

I won't stop until the sheep are safe, at least safe from their own shepherds. I know what I've done regarding this issue. And I know what I had to do because others were not doing what God has expressly commanded them to do. I hated getting into this fight. I hate living this way; but I love the grace that saved me, and I hate the misrepresentation of Christ and His power to save us that is rampant in these churches. The errors of the IFB leadership caused gross sin to flourish in the heart of their own movement, and it is to their shame that a woman had to address it. But somebody had to stop this slaughter of God's sheep. Or, if not stop it (because I didn't know if I would succeed in stopping it), somebody had to do something to express that it is not God's will that the innocent should suffer this way, nor does God take it lightly.

BASSENCO

Subject: RM, Bassenco, bamapossum, and others

Posted by The Good Doctor on Oct-2-03 8:14pm

Ryan,

The kind words on the forum are appreciated. I would have never posted on this forum if it were not for a friend of mine at work who called me the other day to tell me my name was being posted on here for some reason...... I naturally wanted to see what was being said about me, so here I am. You know I have never backed down from anything in life especially when error is being propagated and truth is no where to be found. Some of the people on this forum (bamapossum, BASSENCO, and others) while some times can give some good insight; can often be found to be very ignorant to the real TRUTH of a matter. I am not sure if you have read all of my previous post, but I did mention that only those who were there (PPBT) know the real TRUTH and the TRUTH will always defend itself. I find it quite ironic that when BASSENCO was question today by THE WAY IT IS concerning why she did not come forth with information concerning Dave Hyles eight years ago. the response was that she only found out a couple of years ago..IRONIC !..I guess her ignorance should be considered gross wicked sin of enabling if we use her own words.. So you see the double standard my friend ? It is O.K. for BASSENCO and others to have been ignorant, but God forbid that Pastor Farris and the PPBT members were simple concerning evil up until a couple of years ago..NO NO We are wicked enablers who need to confess our sin of enabling.What ? .. What kind of Bible do these people read ? We never made away for Dave to sin nor did any body in the church try to cover his sin. The only thing that enables Dave Hyles is God almighty !.......Someone please argue that point with me !..........I said it before, but it seems that no one here wants to bite off a piece of that theology. God controls life and death, and if he wanted Dave to stop then He would simply kill him.So according to BASSENCO and friends the real person who is the gross wicked enabler is God. I would love to know how BASSENCO, bamapossum, and others are doing in their pastorate positions EXACTLY !.Ryan, my point is that most of these people do not pastor a church, never have, and for some reason think they are experts?

To clear an issue, the only warnings we received concerning Dave were 15 years old, very vague, and nothing like the information we have today. We were never handed a copy of Fundamental Seduction, Police reports, or photo evidence.quite the opposite. We were told lies about the author and origination of the stories. All our pastor and church ever KNEW (documented facts with at least two witnesses) about Dave (until recent years) was that he messed up morally and had gotten divorced and re-married. Believe it or not that is ALL we KNEW about Dave Hyles. Our church was never a Hyles worshipper. We had Jack Hyles for conferences and went to pastor's school, but always worshipped God. Our pastor was and is very much in tune with his personal convictions concerning Gods word. When our pastor KNEW that Dave Hyles was immoral, he was fired that very same day. We never knew anything about the Pinellas Park Police getting information concerning the Hyles family. Give me a break..sounds like someone thinks pretty highly of their efforts. My question is why was the information not sent to Pastor Farris at PPBT ?? Was it just assumed that he was a wicked enabler how many conversations did you have with pastor Farris BASSENCO ? or how many times did you attend the church and try to warn the members ?.......you see your false accusations will continue to haunt you until you face the TRUTH the TRUTH is that you do not know pastor Farris and you do not know what he did or did not know about Dave Hyles. So I say to you and all the others who want to jump or your pathetic, false, assuming, pharisaical bandwagon.it is time you all embrace the TRUTH, because the TRUTH will set you free.It sure has for us !

Ryan, don't give up I will start praying for you again..you have my word on it.Truth is I should have never stopped. I am sorry that I did. The issue concerning Dave Hyles and PPBT is a local New Testament church issue and PPBT does not and will not have to answer to anybody else except God in how we handled it.

Good day and God speed !

Jonathan Farris
"Bring it On" - George W. Bush

Subject: The warnings that went out and this warning

Posted by BASSENCO on Oct-3-03 3:11am
(In reply to: RM, Bassenco, bamapossum, and others posted by The Good Doctor on Oct-2-03 8:14pm)

I learned of Dave Hyles the way an outsider does (not having gone to HAC). But the abundant evidence was there. At the time that I was looking into the matter, people told me they had tried to tell the church leadership at PPBT the truth about Dave. The overwhelming presence of evidence and commentary, including two books and a news documentary, provided an available record that PPBT could have (and shold have) checked.

Furthermore, when a divorced man who had been put out of a church by its congregation came to your church, it was your obligation to investigate his history, his treatment of his first wife and children by her, and the life he had lived at his previous church. The fact that your church leadership stumbled in its duty does not create a burden on every other person to keep coming to you. You were warned and those warnings were vague because you didn't listen. Green Beret and Average Joe have testified that they tried to warn you. I was told two and a half years ago that you'd been warned.

If you think that I, as a single woman alone, was going to go wrestle with Dave Hyles in the heart of his power structure, you'd better think again. And if you thnk that makes me blameworthy, think it. You gave him power and position in the face of an overwhelming history of sins against others and an overwhelming public record against him. That did align you with him.

Listen, Jonathan Farris, you face an awful choice in your life over this matter. So take me seriously now. Because here is a timely warning for you, since you say you never got any. If you try to insist that your church leadership did nothing wrong, and if you keep denying the responsibility your church leadership had in empowering Dave and enabling him to harm people in your own church, then this problem will never go away. You will spend the rest of your lives justifying yourselves, and trying to prove that you did nothing wrong. It will be the end of any effective work you do for God. You will never get free of this.

But if you seriously and with heartfelt concern go to the Lord and are sorry for the level of self sufficiency that caused you not to follow Biblical guidelines in examining and discipling a fallen brother, and if you express remorse for having allowed a wolf into your flock, and if you try to make amends to those who were harmed and work to make the victims understand that they have a standing in Christ and are precious to God because Christ has purchased them, this situation will go away, and the Lord will be your vindication.

It is not an amazing thing for sinners to repent. There is nothing horrible in the suggestion that your church leadership renounce its own self sufficiency and call upon itself and the church to seek the Lord anew and study His Word with fresh eyes, and pray to Him to give you wisdom and a sensitivity to your need of His guidance day in and day out. That's not losing anything; that's winning. Every one of us walks that road of confessing our complete dependence on Christ, or we descend into constant self justification. And you are descending into self justification, moving further from the Lord and not closer.

This lamentable insistence on your part that you had neither obligation nor opportunity to know Dave Hyles' history is a testimony against you. It's evidence that your heart has not changed in all of this,and you are still determined to be self sufficient and portray yourselves as fully able to run that church, in spite of the towering catastrophe you brought upon your own people.

You will never get away from this; you will never put it behind you, unless you obey the Scripture now and turn to the Lord to be your wisdom, your guidance, and your peace. Be sorry for your failure, and be sorry for your self sufficiency, and be sorry for the people who you brought into contact with evil. And go to the Lord in sorrow, and He'll restore you and your church and make you true shepherds. Every one of us has to do this again and again in our lives, and it is not an unusual thing for sinners to flee to Christ.

BASSENCO

Subject: Pharisees

Posted by The Good Doctor on Oct-3-03 4:13pm

Possum and BASSENCO, You both remind me of the Pharisees trying to teach Jesus about the word of God. Jesus was the word in flesh and here he had to sit and listen to those who THOUGHT they knew what they were talking about, were educated in the subject, and even skillful in the word.........BUT ...and this is a big BUT....they lacked one crucial thing.....they did not know the TRUTH ! You can sit all day long an SPECULATE what you THINK you know about how the situation with Dave Hyles was handled at PPBT and you can ASSUME what Pastor Farris knew about Dave Hyles, BUT....and this is a big BUT.... you lack one crucial thing....You do not KNOW the TRUTH !. So generation of vipers.. keep on posting and like our Saviour had to deal with the Pharisees....we will continue to deal with your ramblings of wannabe Spiritual intellect. Remember this ....those (PPBT members) who KNOW the TRUTH of the matter, like our Savior must have done time and time again with the Pharisees, will chuckle each time we see you making a fool of yourself because you really have NO CLUE of what you speak.

BASSENCO...In your spiteful post to me you really made yourself look like a fool..... You really ought to stick to the books and not random postings..LOL.....There is so much Biblical error in your post to me that it would take too much of my valuable time to respond....The one thing that really caused me to cringe...is that you are so theologically challenged that you would put yourself on the level of God and made statements for God concerning who HE decides to use........If there is a heretic on this forum, it would be you my friend.

You may just be shocked one day to find out how much God IS using me :-)

Jonathan Farris
"Bring it On" - George W. Bush

Subject: Re: Pharisees

Posted by BASSENCO on Oct-3-03 6:03pm
(In reply to: Pharisees posted by The Good Doctor on Oct-3-03 4:13pm)

>>There is so much Biblical error in your post to me
>>that it would take too much of my valuable time to respond....

Is that the same ruse you used to avoid dealing with the people who warned you about Dave Hyles? Just tell them they were filled with error and you wouldn't waste your time on them?

I will say it again: if your church leadership justify yourselves now and refuse to take responsibility for the gross errors and lack of competence all of you demonstrated, you will never get over this. Your lives and ministry will forever be marred by having to defend yourselves for what you cannot defend, and justifying yourselves for what can never be justified. By failing to follow the Scriptural process for church discipline and restoration, you brought a sexual predator into your church and gave him responsibility and authority. The Lord has already brought this out before the public; do you think He's going to stop because you insist you did nothing wrong? It's going to get worse.

But if you repent of self sufficiency and go to the Lord in humility, and ask to understand the value of the people who are now victms and survivors of Dave Hyles because of your negligence, the Lord will be you vindication, and He will be your sufficiency. You will get over this, and you will move on, and you will have a tremendous opportunity to turn the eyes of your people away from yourselves to the God of all Comfort.

You and your church are teetering on the edge of finding your sufficiency in God through Christ. If those people suffered, help them to profit by their suffering, which is your duty. Don't waste your energy and time defending yourselves. Find out what you have in Christ as believers and how best to proceed to protect your congregation, and find ways to express to them that they are God's sacred people. That journey begins with the leadership humbling temselves before God and asking for forgiveness and wisdom after their foolishness. God delights in a humble and contrite heart and restores those who truly grieved by their failings.

BASSENCO

Subject: BASSENCO........you made me do it !

Name: The Good Doctor
Date: Oct-3-03 8:24pm

I wanted to spare you from me proving on the FFF how foolish you really are, but you went ahead and kept pressing the issue... So don't blame me when you have egg on your face...I will only highlight one of the many Biblical errors and hypocrisy in your post, but there are MANY……No I am not afraid to confront your accusations, because the TRUTH is very liberating….I am only going to spend time on one, because my time is valuable to me and I have a much bigger fish to fry than you :-)... so here goes in BASSENCO type format:

BASSENCO: and I quote from her first phrase: "At the time that I was looking into the matter, people told me they had tried to tell the church leadership at PPBT the truth about Dave."

The Good Doctor: I want every one to note that BASSENCO said in her own words that “people told her”……...People told me that BASSENCO was a heifer and a Dyke....should I believe it because they told me... ? ......so you see this raises the first question to BASSENCO about why she did not investigate in the type of “biblical” fashion she should have…. You see if she is so concerned about Christians handling these issues biblically and….. “this gross wicked sin of enabling that offends her and all other Christians”….. she would have first done what Matthew 18:15-17 states:

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as a heathen man and a publican. KJV

..BASSENCO has jumped on to verse 17 before first doing what Jesus commanded in verse 15 and 16. Do you people see the INJUSTICE in this? Can you see by what has happened on the forum why Jesus implemented such a plan? BASSENCO has many times stated that Pastor Farris and the members of PPBT are guilty of the wicked sin of enabling a sexual predator. However BASSENCO (Geri) has never brought the offense to Pastor Farris alone, neglecting the first commandment from Jesus concerning this type of matter. She never one time has heard his side of the story. Those who have stated Dr. Farris’s position concerning Dave Hyles…..she calls liars. Here again we find BASSENCO telling another brother and sister “in Christ” that they have trespassed against here by lying, but never going to the person in private and never bringing two or more witnesses to that person that she accused of lying……….I hope you all are SEEING the fundamental error in her ways. She is so busy spewing error concerning the SPLINTER in PPBT’s eye that she has neglected to see the BEAM in her own eye.

I could go on and on, but I want everyone to read this because it is very important to the viewers on this forum. BE VERY CAREFUL reading all the post on here, especially if you are not skillful in the word of God. BASSENCO may WOW! several of you on this forum with her intellectual speech and eloquent writing style, but beware of the doctrinal error she teaches.

One more warning ….as BASSENCO tries to get the egg of her face by dividing my words………go back and read my prior post and realize that she has done a horrible job “rightly” dividing my words in the past… and the TRUTH of the matter is this: She has not handled this matter concerning Pastor Farris and the members of PPBT in Biblical fashion……she has offended me by calling me a liar……..I have witnesses….just check the forum ………LOL !

Jonathan Farris
"Bring it On" - George W. Bush

Subject: Re: BASSENCO........you made me do it !

Name: BASSENCO
Date: Oct-4-03 5:58am

Let me tell you something, Jonathan, a man on the edge says a lot of things, and even when they're pointed at me, I don't take them seriously.

I learned a long time ago that all of us (me included) wear our costumes in public and keep ourselves cosmetically secure so that we look like nice people, godly people, good people. But put a person in a place where the facade is discounted, and then you'll see the true mind and heart behind the mask. Your true self is emerging, and it's about as horrible as I would ever think to see. But I'm not hurting you; you're doing this yourself, displaying the heart and mind that brought such catastrophe onto your church in the first place.

You're only showing everybody what is truly inside you---this desperate, angry, vindictive person who will be right no matter who has suffered for his ignorance and incompetence. I won't keep saying this to you, but twice for a witness to be established, and a third time just to be sure, I'll tell you the danger you're in:

If you keep on this way, and if you keep justifying yourself, you will never get over this. The blundering of your church leadership is now public here. As reports of Dave Hyles get worse and worse, the shock of God's people at how you could have put that man on staff is going to grow. Your own people will begin to realize how foolish you have been and some will leave your church. And some of those people, falling into disillusionment over all of this, will not get out of it if you keep justifying yourselves. They need you to admit the seriousness and grimness of your errors, the depth of the lack of competence in handling Dave Hyles, and they need you to produce evidence of truly protecting the congregation and restoring those who were victimized. That only happens when you take responsibility and go to the Lord for forgiveness and wisdom.

If you seriously and with heartfelt concern go to the Lord and are sorry for the level of self sufficiency that caused you not to follow Biblical guidelines in examining and discipling a fallen brother, and if you express remorse for having allowed a wolf into your flock, and if you try to make amends to those who were harmed and work to make the victims understand that they have a standing in Christ and are precious to God because Christ has purchased them, this situation will go away, and the Lord will be your vindication.

But at this point, you are descending into self justification, moving further from the Lord and not closer. You're showing all the evidence of relying on your flesh to be your strength and vindication. If I'm all the awful things yo say I am, why do you care so much about what I say? What does it matter, if I'm all those things? But it does matter to you, because you do know that I am telling you the exact truth. And you can drive me away by incessant namecalling and mockery, but what I've told you is going to stay with you because you know it's true. You will never drive it away. You are putting yourself on a miserable path of having to justify yourself forever.

You will never get away from this; you will never put it behind you, unless you obey the Scripture now and turn to the Lord to be your wisdom, your guidance, and your peace. Be sorry for your failure, and be sorry for your self sufficiency, and be sorry for the people who you brought into contact with evil. And go to the Lord in sorrow, and He'll restore you and your church and make you true shepherds. Every one of us has to do this again and again in our lives, and it is not an unusual thing for sinners to flee to Christ.

Three times is enough, Jonathan. I'm finished with explaining it to you. But ten years from now, when everything is in tatters, and you're still justifying yourself, don't try the "nobody warned me" song, because I'll pull out these warnings and prove (as others have proved regarding Dave Hyles), that yes, you were warned about the consequences of your choices, but you chose self sufficiency instead and self-justification again.

BASSENCO

Subject: Re: BASSENCO

Name: The Good Doctor
Date: Oct-4-03 8:04am

I see a lot more BASSENCO, but very little bible.......look, I am done arguing the point, but I will say this.....in case you have not read all my post, I did admit to being on the wrong side of the lie....a lie that started at the very top !..... and I did say things would have been handled differently retrospect. Here is where you must be careful though.....you call us enablers which implies we KNEW of Dave Hyles actions and did nothing.....not even remotely close to the truth !

On another issue, our church is seeing its greatest days.. To God be the glory !......and trust me when I say we learned a valuable lesson from the Dave Hyles fiasco.

I will say this one more time to you though BASSENCO….your the one who has “put yourself on a miserable path of having to justify yourself forever” because you have based your accusation off of “some people told me”………..I on the other hand I speak the truth………..and I am confident that the PPBT members know the truth………..Unlike some pastors, my dad does not hide behind body guards, so any member at any time can question him on the Dave Hyles situation…….I know he will answer any questions they have… TRUTHFULLY………Hey BASSENCO ….he would do the same for you ! Call him and see (727) 546-9075
Jonathan Farris
"Bring it On" - George W. Bush

Subject: Re: BASSENCO

Name: BASSENCO
Date: Oct-4-03 8:38am

Jonathan, I wish I could believe you. I really do. And even this morning I prayed for both you and for me to understand the grace and wisdom of God better, so that each of us can comprehend what the Lord provides for us in order to serve Him and those victimized people.

The problem is that you have not produced any evidence of a true change, and that is part of the restitution process of forgiveness. A guarantee that things will change is really not enough. I'm serious when I say you need to produce a documented procedure on how to handle church discipline and restoration from a biblical perspective so that you can assure your congregation and outsiders that this will never happen again. THEN I will believe that some true change has taken place.

What I have seen from you is more of the same---reviling and stamping and counter accusation to justify yourself. I did what I had to do in good conscience two and a half years ago, because the warnings and the evidence were abundant and Dave Hyles was still on staff in that church, and I knew he was hurting people, and I was proved right.

Now you're saying you're sorry, yet you are also blaming me for what I did and saying I did the wrong thing. Well which was it, Jonathan? Were you wrong, and did that wrong create consequences for others? Did your wrongness force me into doing something I didn't even want to do? Or didn't it? Were you really wrong, or was it some slip, some mild error?

I was terrified at what I did. Ask Voyle. I bought a gun for crying out loud; that's how afraid I was. And I remember the man at the gun range telling me I had to stop closing my eyes when I fired, but I was that afraid of having to use a gun. And now you promenade how strong and macho you are. Do you think I don't know I'm a woman all by myself, and what Dave Hyles might have done to me? He's the prime suspect in a murder, and Paula testified of him putting a gun to her head during their marriage.

*I'M* one of the victims of your incompetence, Jonathan. MY LIFE was compromised by your failure as a preacher. Remember that, as you find your way back to whatever you can garner for yourself. And as for body guards, I have no idea what you are talking about. I have no body guards. I acted without protection from others, to try to protect God's lambs from the predator that was in the fold. I will never regret that. But because God keeps prompting me to come back to Him again and again and ask on your behalf, I am doing that, praying for you to find you sufficiency in Christ, though I would wash my hands of you myself and think the worst possible thoughts about you after your display of yourself these last two days.

BASSENCO

¶ 4:57 PM

Touching Evil
I’ll probably post more details on this later, but yesterday on the FFF, I unmasked myself and gave my account of being the person who went to the Pinellas Park Police Dept. two and a half years ago with documentation to show them the history of Dave Hyles, who was then on church staff at Pinellas Park Baptist Church.

I had been afraid to step into the light on this issue. But the time has come. The person known as madisonmadness, who is busily documenting and publishing Dave’s latest ventures, has been trying to do damage control on the Fighting Fundamentalist Forums, trying to get the situation to go his way, which of course is not possible. And Jonathan Farris, son of Everett Farris, who is the senior pastor at Pinellas Park Baptist Church, has been posting to declare that the leadership at the church has not been guilty of any wrongdoing in admitting Dave into membership and giving him a position on staff. And of course I (and others) have been disputing that claim and providing evidence that they should have inquired further into his history, should have heeded the warnings that were given to them (He now says they were given only vague warnings), and should have followed the Scriptural mandate for church discipline and restoration.

After I announced my identity and declared what I had done, I got an e-mail from---I assume---Dave Hyles, in one of his disguises. But he slipped and gave his e-mail address as SexyKewlDude@aol.com, which was a bit too blatant. In addition, he changed his e-mail address but left in an ID tag in the mailing header that identified him as the same person who had written to me a week before (under a different e-mail address), blathering on insincerely and making a fool of himself for no clear reason.

The e-mail yesterday was interspersed with all-caps for some words. It was brief but not all that coherent. I thought the e-mail was from Dave himself, deliberately letting me know that he could reach out through the ether and touch me. And it was a chilling experience at first. But now I think he didn’t know that somebody had broadcast that e-mail addy (or a similar one, emphasizing sex) of his a year or so ago. Anyway, it was chilling to make even that type of contact with him. Not terrifying. Just coldness in the blood, like you look into the eyes of a person and see that he has no soul any more.

When Esau sold his birthright and laughed it off, did anybody nearby shiver uncontrollably for a moment? ¶ 3:42 AM

Tuesday, September 30, 2003

Final Words
If you haven't seen Johnny Cash's final video, "Hurt," treat yourself to a surf around the web until you find it. This is one of those times when I am thankful for a cable connection. It plays easily. You can get it Here in Real Audio (Scroll down the text to close to the end of the article). Or you can get it for Windows Media (Version 9 only) by clicking Here for Windows Media 9 and scrolling down, looking to the left side for the link to the Windows Media version.

I've got the MP3 for listening right here, but I'm telling you, the video part is haunting and forms an integral part of the song. Cash's final song is utterly truthful, very sad, and yet not bitter. It moves hauntingly over images of decay and age (including Cash himself) and is interspersed with clips of him as a younger, stronger man. Yet it also resounds with a man's recognition that that's all there is, and the time has come for the end. His song is not undignified, and in telling us a hard truth, Johnny Cash once again tells it in song, directly, with poignant honesty and simplicity.

¶ 4:09 PM

Sunday, September 28, 2003

Gerald and the Boar Hunt
Got an e-mail today from "Larger than Life" Gerald, who is getting ready to take his son on another boar hunt this week. Gerald is the man I named "Jethro" in the Big Pharma story, which is a tale of incredible abuse in the workplace and how seven of us teamed up to survive it and find some artful way to fight it. (We did, and we won.) Once a year Gerald takes his 20-something son and his stepfather with him to the wilds of Texas or Oklahoma to hunt wild boar. Then he comes back and tells stories all about it. I never thought I was a keen one for big-game type stories, but Gerald is the Original Oklahoma yarn-spinner. Here is a link to one of the cabins where he will be staying. Good luck Gerald! Bring us home some great stories! I'm not able to eat pork because of my weak stomach, but I do love his stories!

¶ 11:55 AM

Morality for Beautiful Girls
I've been helping the IS department at work get their documents together for approval. This is not my department, but for weeks my work was stalled owing to a project manager who was out having a baby. So I edited the IS department's required documentation and really enjoyed seeing how they went about meeting FDA requirements. I finished up a couple weeks ago, and the documents have gone to Corporate for approval. Much to my delight, the manager of IS presented me with a $20 gift certificate to Barnes & Noble. Apparently my enthusiasm for the project was refreshing. So today I purchased the audio book version of Morality for Beautiful Girls which is the third or fourth in the series of No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency mysteries by Alexander McCall Smith and R. A. McCall Smith. the first book, No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency, is definitely the best.

At first, I was put off by the idea of a mystery set in hot, dusty, impoverished Africa (which just goes to show my huge ignorance of Africa). But from the first page of the first book, the delightful, warm (at times hilarious) tone of the story captured my heart and mind. The lead character is an African woman, and she is an amazing mix of an ageless wisdom, practiced and self-disciplined kindness, and down to earth common sense. Her methods of detection will both startle and charm the American reader. I thoroughly recommend these books, but start with the first one first!

¶ 11:21 AM