The Sin of Gossip vs. The Command to Establish a Valid Witness Against an Elder A guy who goes by 'Dr. Frank DoD' recently posted on the FFF with this heading: "To Vic Marty BASS and ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!" I hate posts with headings like this. It always means that somebody who just cannot win a debate has finally come up with a brilliant comeback and is sure this is going to cinch the argument. Then I have to drag myself through the drivel. Sometimes I don't. Sometimes I figure, if they couldn't frame a reply on the first ten tries, they've used up their quota of my time.(In case you don't know, I post on the Fighting Fundamentalist Forum as "BASSENCO," and am often called "BASS" by the others.)

However, browsing had just given me his timely lecture on respecting everybody, so my conscience was still tender. So I dragged myself through Frank's post, which overall has little to do with me. It's a huge soliloquy about the church abuse he's seen (and, from what he's saying, it looks like he's never done anything about it, but maybe I'm wrong). It ends with this:

Abuse does happen and I beleive with all my heart God
will expose it in his time and does not need BASS's
wicked blog and others wicked websites. Truth will
come out and God is still in control. Many get just
what they deserve.

So if nobody writes about it,how does it come out? Posted by BASSENCO on Oct-19-03 6:54am (In reply to: To Vic Marty BASS and ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!! posted by Dr Frank DoD on Oct-18-03 12:46pm)

How do you think God will expose abuse if everybody who can gather and present documentation on it refuses to do so? Justice is arrived at in the Church by the accounts provided by witnesses, not by waiting for a miracle from God. In fact, we are commanded to keep a record.

Deu 17:6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; [but] at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

2Cr 13:1b In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

1Ti 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.

So once you have two or three witnesses, you have a requirement to investigate a matter fully. We have FUNDAMENTAL SEDUCTION and WIZARD OF GOD and PREYING FROM THE PULPIT, [which, by the way, is on mp3, and you can listen to it by clicking on the "Preying from the Pulpit" links to the right of this blog---Ed] three witnesses that have formed an inescapable record against Jack Hyles and Dave Hyles and others who are caught up in that horrible arm of the IFB.

Furthermore, a pastor/elder is to be subject to documented reports. The church must take into account the secular measures that keep track of the lives of those in church office:

1Ti 3:7 Moreover he [an elder] must have a good report of ***them which are without;*** lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

So the church is required to look at documentation and witnesses about elders that exist outside the church. Nothing is secret about the lives of those who seek chuch office. What a man does outside the church has to satisfy the requirements of those who hold church office.

Furthermore, the church is commanded by Paul, ("I beseech you", an urgent entreaty given by one who wants the best for us, our advocate) to thoroughly know (to "mark"--skopeo, which allows for a record to be made so that the church body can know these things) both those who harm the church and those who help the church:

Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and ***offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned;*** and avoid them.

Rampant sinners who commit outrageous sins in God's name are, indeed to me "marked" so that the entire church body knows who they are and can put a safe distance between themselves and the culprits. No secrecy allowed! People who harm the church are to be made known to the entire chuch body so that individuals can keep themselves safe.

Phl 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

People in the church who serve the church well and are good examples are also to be "marked" so that believers can be guided to them.

All of this calls for a written record, documentation. We do not wait for a miracle from God. The church is charged with creating a record, documenting both abuses and service. The church is better served by laying down rules to create impartial, accurate documents and then keeping those records. It is also commanded to check documentation and reports that exist outside of the church to verify the lives of those who profess to be eligible for church office.

Documentation will keep the church pure and enable it to police itself. The secrecy and "total allegiance" nonsense of the Jack Hyles generation is what has so harmed the church and allowed corruption to flourish.

BASSENCO