POWER PLAY Well, in a story full of twists and turns, here's a show stopper. Up until now I had assumed that Green Beret and madisonmadness were two newcomers to a fight to get perverted preachers out of power. This fight that has been going on in the IFB movement ever since Voyle Glover self-published Fundamental Seduction 20 years ago and Vic Nischik published Wizard of God. As you know if you have been reading this blog, madisonmadness has promised to deliver the goods on Dave Hyles, the son of Jack Hyles. Dave's list of alleged wrongs is too long to list here, but you can go through this blog and read the account. (Or listen to the Preying from the Pulpit series, linked at the right). A couple weeks ago, when I came out strong in condemning the rank ignorance of Pinellas Park Baptist Church in accepting Dave Hyles onto their church staff when his list of wrongs was so egregious, madisonmadness did not like my comments and told me so. So that was when I unmasked as the person who had gone to the Pinellas Park police (and later the Orange County Sheriff) with documentation about Dave's history to warn them about the monster in their midst. Green Beret supported my stance while Jonathan Farris (son of the senior pastor at PPBT) exploded and started blaming me for what I had done.

Yesterday, out of the blue, madisonmadness posted a link to a criminal record for Green Beret, a stunning declaration. But the mug shot was more than a decade old (for a misdemeanor), which made me dubious about it. Yet the callousness in posting it startled me. It was done without warning to him or preliminary cautions to us. This startling post was followed by an admonition from madisonmadness that turned my stomach. He urged us to love one another and focus on getting Dave out of the pulpit. The message was clear: stay away from the preachers who have sheltered and enabled Dave Hyles, or this will happen to you, too.

Several people (me, AllanA, and ScottRoberts) declared that this was exactly what madisonmadness was doing. And browsing and Speed Racer posted that the record that had been linked was old, with no history of the outcome of the charges (acquittal or guilt). browsing also posted that Green Beret had come to him about the matter earlier, and browsing was satisfied that Green Beret was cleared of criminal wrongdoing. Green Beret then posted his side of the story. As things turned out, the matter had been dropped. Other forum regulars like BHarris also posted to show that there was no outcome documented, no clear account in madisonmadness's initial post of what had happened. madisonmadness, having now launched the greatest backfire in the history of the FFF, pulled the posts. (That's why I cannot reprint them here.) He denied having done it to do damage control for the preachers who have enabled Dave Hyles. He insisted that he is impartial, but his facade slipped again when he took a sideswipe at me. It didn't even matter. I was so horrified at his attack on Green Beret and the incredible maliciousness that he had shown that I figure a sideswipe from him is getting off easy.

Madisonmadness Posted by browsing on Oct-15-03 12:31pm

" Meet your credible source Mr. Green Beret..."

By doing this, you have diminished your own credibility.

STAY FOCUSED ON WHAT YOU'RE DOING !!!

I saw that link on Green Beret some time ago. It was sent to me presumably by the man who Green Beret has targeted. I received an explanation about it that was satisfactory to me.

But even if totally true and not misleading (as your post is, actually) why on earth would you divert your attention and make such an inane post? If you want to get into other diversionary scuffles, do it under an individual name. Remember, whoever you are, YOU ARE SPEAKING FOR THE ENTIRE GROUP WHEN YOU MAKE SUCH A POST.

Can you do that? Can you say you spoke for all of them? I suspect not.

Be careful. I'm for you guys and your task.

Don't blow it.

---browsing

	This was a power play, browsing--- Posted by BASSENCO on Oct-15-03 1:50pm (In reply to: Madisonmadness posted by browsing on Oct-15-03 12:31pm)

This was a power play, browsing---a means to bring Green Beret into line. I can't answer for Green Beret, and I'm not going to try, though I see that the alleged crime was committed a decade ago with nothing more recent to show that he has not changed (unlike Dave Hyles, whose string of cruelty is uninterrupted from his teenage years, with plenty of witnesses to the fact. In fact, I just got an e-mail from a girl he victimized when she was a teenager.).

Remember browsing, and you Green Beret, in taking on the power structure at PPBT, you (and I) are taking on unrepentant sinners who have given lip service to repentance but have strongly resisted providing any evidence of it. Indeed, there was a lot of evidence to the contrary of the claim of repentance.

These people are vicious, and have just proved it. Yes, let us stay fixed on the course. The main goal has to be to protect God's people, especially young girls and children. But let's not forget that the person who seems to be of help may only coincidentally be trying to achieve the same ends as those who demand a return to biblical church discipline and church office. There are plenty of people who have a grudge against Dave and want him put down. That's not the same thing as demanding biblical obedience in matters of church discipline and church office. Hating an enemy of God for a personal reason is not the same thing as fearing the Lord.

BASSENCO

Attention: madisonmadness Posted by Green Beret on Oct-15-03 4:30pm

I see you have deleted your original post.

That was a good decision. Obviously, it doesn't undo what you have done. Your post "Enough Already" wasn't enough at all.

Now, I would really like to have an apology for the way the information was posted. It was, as browsing has pointed out, misleading. I have NEVER committed a crime. I was accused of it 11 years ago and, for reasons I will discuss later, went through a PTI program to avoid a trial. You chose not to contact me and discuss it.

You chose to put the information in a post. I was waiting for one of the Douglass clan to do it. I believe you got the info from them and put it here. By doing so you have caused several small problems. Like I said before, I expected it to come out. I didn't expect it from you.

Since you have chosen not to contact me via email to discuss this in private, I will do it on the public forum. At the very least, a public apology is in order. At the very most, it would be nice if you would contact me privately to discuss the source of this information.

GB, observations on madisonmadness Posted by BASSENCO on Oct-15-03 5:07pm (In reply to: Attention: madisonmadness posted by Green Beret on Oct-15-03 4:30pm)

First of all, we don't know that madisonmadness *is* a collective.

Second, MM is named for a porn star, as we all found out when MM first announced himself. This link, somehow, goes back to porn.

Third, MM has today exercised a textbook IFB-Hyles technique of self defense: attempting to slander a person who represents a danger in such a way as to discredit him forever (as Hyles did in calling Vic Nischik queer when Nischik stood against him, and as Hyles threatened against the IFB pastorate at large when Sumner outed him and he finally responded).

Crowning this abominable act of hurt and hatred with a post enjoining us to behave with love just about cemented my conclusion that MM is nobody other than an IFB pastor who has a vested interest in salvaging his name from some doom. This is not a good man, as Anthony pointed out. This man is a monster in his own right.

Now add to that the fact that Dave Hyles just got booted from Neal's church.

And consider that when MM first posted, we were promised more than was ever delivered. All we got were some screen names of Dave for his porn and sex antics and an account of a woman who used to be a secretary at PPBT and is now charged with running a house of ill fame.

What we have here is a hoax. Somebody whose got to save himself from shame has put on the crusader's mask to make himself look good; and anybody who threatens to pull off that mask (even if the person did not even know he posed such a threat) will be dealt with harshly by our fake crusader.

When I went after Dave Hyles because I realized how dangerous he was, I acted without a word to anybody until after the fact. And then I only told a couple people and never posted on the forum about it until two and a half years had passed. The goal wasn't glory. The goal was to nail Dave. To nail Dave, you have to move secretly and skillfully. That's not what MM is doing. MM is trumpeting himself, handing out tokens and calling them treasures, and harming those who he thinks threatens him.

I'm not declaring WHO madisonmadness is (because I don't know), but I feel sure it is a person who is a preacher in the IFB and is trying to save face and come out a hero.

BASSENCO