Blog on the Lillypad
Thursday, September 18, 2003
"Please Don't Try and Give Me a Bible Study on Repentance"--Jonathan Farris
 | Why Repentance Ampng the Leadership of PPBT is not an option.
Way back, when Dave Hyles was removed from office at Miller Road Baptist church in Garland Texas, he went back up north and loved in obscurity for a few years with a woman who was not his wife (Brenda Stevens) and during that time Brenda's infant son Brent was discovered to have eight or nine broken bones which had all gone untreated. He was removed from the home but was then returned by the state, against the advice of Paul Cialino. Soon thereafter, Brent was found dead. Paul Cialino investigated and refused to close the case, insisting that Dave was the prime suspect. At the inquest for Brent, his mother Brenda did not appear at all, and Dave Hyles pleaded the fifth amendment when questioned. |
Dave next married Brenda, announced he had repented of his sexual sins, and was accepted on the church staff at Pinellas Park Baptist Church in Florida, under the pastorate of Everett Farris.
People still ask how Farris could have taken on this man who had such a sordid history. Here is an excerpt of a thread from the Hyles-Anderson College forum of the Fighting Fundamentalist Forum. This is not the whole thread. You can go to the FFF (link on the right side of the screen) to view the thread:
 | Posted by The Good Doctor on Sep-16-03 3:20pm
J. and D. Farris Look people... if I was going to post something about Dave Hyles on this forum, trust me... I would not have to hide my name. I am confident that Dave knows better than to mess with me, my family, or any more of the PPBT church members. It is quite apparent that Dave has messed with the wrong family (whoever this madison family is) and is now finally going to reap the results. I normally do not speak for my other family members, but if Everett Farris, Christian Farris, or Jonathan Farris ever have something to tell you people.....we will put our name to it. The Farris name is a good one and we have nothing to hide. Jonathan Farris Pinellas Park, Florida |
 | Posted by Average Joe on Sep-16-03 3:26pm
Re: J. and D. Farris (In reply to: J. and D. Farris posted by The Good Doctor on Sep-16-03 3:20pm) the Good Doctor: "The Farris name is a good one and we have nothing to hide." You allowed an unrepentent sexual pervert to not only join your church but have a leadership position in it. I don't know what kind of "good name" you think you have, but in my book the Farris name is another in a long long list of enablers for DH. |
| Posted by The Good Doctor on Sep-16-03 3:38pm
Re: J. and D. Farris (In reply to: Re: J. and D. Farris posted by Average Joe on Sep-16-03 3:26pm) First of all, Dave did "repent" when he came to our church. (please don't try and give me some bible study on repentance) He knows how to play the repent game very well. Don't try and tag the Farris name to Dave Hyles. The only thing enabling Dave is God almighty. If God did not want him on this earth, than God would destroy him..........and maybe we are getting to see God destroy him now. |
| Posted by Average Joe on Sep-16-03 3:42pm
Re: J. and D. Farris (In reply to: Re: J. and D. Farris posted by The Good Doctor on Sep-16-03 3:38pm) Farris: First of all, Dave did "repent" when he came to our church. (please don't try and give me some bible study on repentance) Don't worry. I won't try to give you some bible study on repentance. Obviously *Biblical* repentance isn't something you guys were concerned about at the time. |
 | Posted by Green Beret on Sep-16-03 3:55pm
Re: J. and D. Farris / AMEN! (In reply to: Re: J. and D. Farris posted by Average Joe on Sep-16-03 3:42pm) TGD> First of all, Dave did "repent" when he came to our church. (please don't try and give me some bible study on repentance) GB> Try connecting some Biblical restoration with the type of "repentance" (i.e. the Jack Hyles type) that was practiced at PPBT when Dave Hyles was allowed in as a member. YOU WERE REPEATEDLY told that he AS WELL AS OTHERS that PPBT supported were repeat sexual offenders and should not have ANY part with a local IFB church. But, no, the good people who played the part of the watchmen were called "the accusers" and "talebarers"! Well, you have a name now, sir. It is one that is forever attached to the legacy of more than one sexual pervert. I completely agree with Average Joe when he says PPBT was an enabler of Dave Hyles. That is my opinion and you are welcome to it. What say ye members of the FFF, is it shared by anyone else? |
 | My Reply on Sep-16-03 4:02pm
I agree with you Green Beret (In reply to: Re: J. and D. Farris / AMEN! posted by Green Beret on Sep-16-03 3:55pm) PPBT failed to fulfill biblical church discipline. David should have been held accountable, should have been expected to make articulate statements about his past, should have been required to address the death of Brent Stevens (without taking the fifth) to the authorities, and should have been required to fulfill his obligations as a father to his children by Paula. They played a game of appearances, just doing what was necessary to get the name Hyles in the door. And it looks like they will be feeling the sting of that mockery of God's righteousness for some time to come. |
| My Longer Reply on Sep-18-03 6:57am
What happened at our church and what we did (In reply to: Re: J. and D. Farris posted by The Good Doctor on Sep-16-03 3:38pm) About three and a half years ago at our church, the regular church staff noticed that our then-pastor was working very closely with the 20-year old music director to alter our arrangement of the service to use the music more effectively. Only a few months before, the pastor had recommended (and the elders had accepted) that the paid church staff member who conducted the choir and ran the music should be let go to save money, and she was. The 20-year old daughter of one of the elders, who had been raised in a Gothard-style homeschool setting, (and was incredibly sheltered and naive) came on as a volunteer music director. |
All the signs were actually in place then that something was going on. Our pastor was always with her, often with his office door closed, and it was observed that notes frequently passed back and forth between them. But only the day church staff saw this.
Eventually, it was brought to the attention of the head elder, and he brushed it off. But the woman who thought something that was indiscreet, at the very least, again brought it to his attention, and the elders questioned the pastor. He apologized for the appearance of impropriety and assured them that his interest in her was fatherly. They had never been seen touching or saying anything inappropriate to each other, and he pointed this out but promised to be very careful to avoid appearance of impropriety.
After several more months passed, choir members became angry because they didn't like the musical choices the young lady was making. Also, our music director position, though prominent in some Baptist churches, has never been more than a service role in our church. All she did was get the songbooks in, hand them ou,t and then have the people sing their parts in rehearsal and put it all together. Usually, our song leader did not even stand in front of or with the choir during church (not even when the choir sang), and an elder led congregational singing.
But this young lady began to be made more prominent as the music director. She stood with the choir, and she was visible when she would pull down a screen in the front and put the new songs up on an overhead projector (which most of us disliked). Choir members protested that this 20-year old girl was now presuming to lead them in devotions and giving them "challenges" before choir practice. She did not listen to their requests for the music that they liked, and she was heedless of a lot of the niceties that her predecessor had relied upon to keep everybody in unity.
To all of this, the pastor turned a deaf ear. Members of the choir began to observe his relationship with her with more scrutiny. They complained to the elders, but the as far as the elders were concerned, the matter had been satisfactorily investigated and closed.
I don't know exactly what happened, but somehow in all of this, either a discarded note was picked up innocently that turned out to be a love letter, or the two of them were caught being indiscreet, but it became clear to a church staff member that he had lied to the elders and that something was going on, and now there was proof. The elders made the decision not to tell the congregation and believed they had the right to so this, though they did not have the right to do that. They met with the pastor and laid down the law. He "repented," agreed to their conditions, and promised changes. They put in a few new rules---the most important being that he could not be alone with her in the church or anywhere else.
Several months later, he was caught with her in his home when his wife was gone. The elders again decided that they could handle this, but a church staff member sent a letter to the presbytery, and the matter became public.
When the congregation found out about all of this, they were stunned. Our pastor "repented" before us, but though a lot of tears were shed and people expressed a commitment to help him and his wife, we voted almost unanimously to remove him from office. Some of the elders were stunned, as there was no clear evidence of outright adultery. Through a series of church meetings, the congregation taught the elders what adultery actually is, and it does not occur at penetration, as they seemed to be assuming (and this Clinton-like reasoning had actually been a part of their defense of keepng him in office).
The congregation expressed a desire for the pastor to stay within the congregation and go through the full process of discipling and accountability, but he left and joined another denomination, with his wife.
Then we as a congregation turned our attention to the elders, who protested very strongly that they had not violated church order and had done nothing wrong. A lot of us believed that they really had clear consciences in the matter, but we recognized that they had behaved 1) with incredible gullibility and fooilshness in the entire matter, and 2) they had appropriated more privilege in handling the matter than church order actually allowed them. Once the pastor had committed actions that required public discipline, the matter should have been brought to the congregation, soberly and carefully.
Many stormy church meetings followed, punctuated by prayer meetings for wisdom and help. But in the end, we voted all the active elders out of office and installed new elders. The foolishness and lack of perception disqualified the elders who had allowed that bad situation to continue for the sake of keeping the pastor secure. Such a lack of wisdom indicated a complete failure on their parts to meet the requirements of the office of elder.
I had people complain to me that those men had served that church all their lives and did not deserve this, as though being an elder were a merit badge and not a grave and sober responsibility. But the grief and sorrow they had permitted to be inflicted on that sheltered, naive young music director (who did sin as well but was judged by all to be the lesser culprit in the matter) who had been too quickly promoted and thrust into close proximity to a man she had been taught to admire on the level of a prophet, and upon the former pastor's children and wife, and even upon the previous music director who had been neatly gotten rid of, all had to be considered. In the end, the elders had acted to save a fallen pastor from being held accountable and had let others be sacrificed, and that was a reproach on the name of Christ.
Under the guidance of the presbytery and the clear mandates of church discipline, even people who were angry at the former elders were restrained to be quiet about their anger and handle things biblically. We were urged to be sober, humble, and thoughtful about these things because God had visited us with something that really was sorrowful, and we had to find Him in all of this. So overall people worked to be courteous. And in the prayer meetings, there was nothing uncommon in hearing people pray, "Lord show us why You've allowed this here!" As a congregation, we truly felt reproached by the Lord. (How do depraved sinners ever say "I'm innocent!" to the Lord, anyway?)
One of the former elders left. Others were half minded to go or to stay. The former head elder stayed, as he still maintained that he had done nothing wrong. Oddly, over time the wives of the former elders did come to see the situation from the congregation's point of view. I don't know if they agreed with the overwhelming consensus of the congregation, but they did realize that we were acting based on genuine belief and biblical teaching.
Yet, in the end, though reconciliation appears to be taking place, we found that elders who failed to know the biblical teaching on church discipline and/or failed to follow it could not remain in office. We also recognized that the entire event was a visitation from God to chasten us as a congregation and call us into a more thorough study of His Word.
When I see a church who has glibly and gullibly accepted a man into fellowship without looking for the actions that bear out a testimony of repentance assuring me that "God is enabling" that adulterer, or telling me "please don't try and give me some bible study on repentance," I'm about 100% certain that, given enough time, that church will fall into the exact same trap all over again. The answer is not to pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and say, "Well, glad that's over with!" The answer is to seek the Lord and commit yourself all over again to the diligent study of His Word in order to be preserved from such a lasting shame being placed upon your church.
What happened at Pinellas Park Baptist Church did not happen because Dave Hyles was so smart, but because the church leadership was so untaught in Scripture. And the worst possible thing to do as follow-up is insist on anything else as a reason for the trouble he caused or declare there was no error. There was gross error in the church leadership, and if those embedded errors are not corrected, the same events will happen again.
We all have to do this again and again with the Lord because He is wise, and we are foolish sinners. There's no shame in your church leadership doing this openly and expressing hope that God will make them---and all of us---wiser by the closer study of His Word. Indeed, the shame is in insisting you are equipped to handle what comes next.
